Speaker "burn in"/"break in" and ELAC Uni-Fi

[Bob in WI]

What does 'burn in' due to wires? Can you measure it? Can you actually tell the difference between burn in or non-burn in? I think it is ear break in nothing more.

I was berated at some length for not acknowledging that Canare 4S11 speaker wire improves considerably after 80 hours of burn in.
Much pseudo science was quoted - none by the sources we would recognize as credible.
My close before I quit the thread was that I couldn't remember what my system sounded like 80 hours ago & I suggested the "burn in dude" couldn't either.
The outrage of a response was suitably amusing & I thought there would be no further entertainment from that thread.

Only conclusion I came up with was that some salesman had filled "burn in dude"'s head with audio mush.

 

[Bob in WI]

I think many audiophiles are delusional. Having deluded myself in these matters I'm quite confident in the ability of others to delude themselves.

As I've posted in other threads, I'd like to see measurements. The technology to measure sound in exquisite detail has existed since WWII.

 

[imral3]

 

[Audiofreak71]

As I've posted in other threads, I'd like to see measurements. The technology to measure sound in exquisite detail has existed since WWII.

If the measurements resulted in a speaker wire , speakers , amps etc were absolutely perfect would that prove to you that those measured as perfect were the superior piece of gear?.

Measurements show part of the story never the whole story and it is the sum of all the parts of a system that makes it sound exceptional, just ok , or bad. I’ve owned pieces of gear that measured excellent and sounded like crap to my ears as well as gear that measured ok but nothing spectacular and sounded exceptional.

Audiofreak71

 

[Natasha Bell]

Like so many others, I'm a fan of Andrew Jones speakers from Pioneer and ELAC. I love my ELAC Debut B6, Debut 2.0 B6.2, and (most of all) Debut Reference BR62. I tried out the latest Uni-Fi 2.0 B52 but couldn't warm up to them. To me, they sounded bright, tinny, and hollow....

View attachment 2217259

I have a pair of Elac F6.2. Prior to that, I had a pair of B6.2. No matter what I did, I could not get comfortable with those. There were too many compromises perhaps, and they just sounded small and tinny to me. I thought it was just break-in.. but after 150-175 hours, there was no real change. Then I decided, to go ahead and purchase the F6.2s. Such a total change... complete amazement. They are everything the B6.2s are not.

 

[Bob in WI]

Very easy. Expensive cables - discuss. *DUCKS HEAD*

HA! - yes.
But in this case, you should be able the measure a piece when new & after XXX hours & see if there was audible change.
Not that the data would change a believers mind, but.......

 

[Bob in WI]

If the measurements resulted in a speaker wire , speakers , amps etc were absolutely perfect would that prove to you that those measured as perfect were the superior piece of gear?

I did not say or infer that in any way & didn't intend to put anyone on the defensive.
And, I should know better to post certain replies so, my bad.

 

[Audiofreak71]

I did not say or infer that in any way & didn't intend to put anyone on the defensive.
And, I should know better to post certain replies so, my bad.

Oh I’m not on the defensive at all I was asking a genuine question, it’s interesting to me what the measurement side of the house thinks. But this isn’t the place for that discussion so I’ll bow out

Audiofreak71

 

[titanstats]

Speakers actually have moving parts, and a speaker freshly assembled isn't going to have the same T/S parameters as one that's been actually used for any decent amount of time.

So does that mean that they continually change over time then -- If not, why not? Why would only the first 30hrs, 40hrs, 2 weeks, 2 months, etc. claimed for burn in effect a change, while the weeks, months, and years after do not?

 

[Stereodiver]

Speakers actually have moving parts, and a speaker freshly assembled isn't going to have the same T/S parameters as one that's been actually used for any decent amount of time.[/QUOTE



These measurements will show you that there is in fact a difference from a “New” to a “Broken in” driver.

Have Fun! Mark

 

[Nixxuz]

HA! - yes.
But in this case, you should be able the measure a piece when new & after XXX hours & see if there was audible change.
Not that the data would change a believers mind, but.......

https://www.gr-research.com/driver-burn-in.html

 

[Nixxuz]

So does that mean that they continually change over time then -- If not, why not? Why would only the first 30hrs, 40hrs, 2 weeks, 2 months, etc. claimed for burn in effect a change, while the weeks, months, and years after do not?

Because the actual process of mechanical break in wears areas that are tight agaist each other, on a microscopic level. It alters structures by the incusion of heat generated by friction. Sometimes these structures are altered permanently, sometimes they can shift back. But the intensity of heat is more the deciding factor, over the duration, after a point, at least for speaker materials.

 

[WaynerN]

I don't believe in any magical break in stuff for wire and things like that. However, the speaker is an electro-mechanical device and things like the return spider and surrounds may require some "loosening" up from the factory. I also think that capacitors need some time doing their job, to do their job the best they can, but that Idea is probably up for debate.

 

[Bodyblue]

Break in, yes.

Burn in, nope.

 

[fredgarvin]

Yes, woofers can take awhile to break in. The aluminum cone BG's I bought new certainly did. I'm a bit skeptical about the long periods that some manufacturers claim.

 

[titanstats]

Because the actual process of mechanical break in wears areas that are tight agaist each other, on a microscopic level. It alters structures by the incusion of heat generated by friction. Sometimes these structures are altered permanently, sometimes they can shift back. But the intensity of heat is more the deciding factor, over the duration, after a point, at least for speaker materials.

That doesn't really answer my question though. Speaker break in should be very quick and shouldn't change much at all over time, else you'd end up with a different speaker than the one that was originally designed.

 

[Nixxuz]

That doesn't really answer my question though. Speaker break in should be very quick and shouldn't change much at all over time, else you'd end up with a different speaker than the one that was originally designed.

You can't manufacture a moving driver that doesn't change from it's original manufactured state, with use. That's simple physics. I posted a link showing it happens. What you consider "much at all" is up to you, but there is a change that can be measured.

 

[regore]

Break in is pretty easy to prove. Measure the T/S specs of your new woofer.Then run them at their fs with your
signal generator for about 2 hours at 2 volts RMS. Re measure and you'll get a big surprise at how the
specs have changed. Mid range and tweeters also have suspensions that need to loosen up a bit to
sound their best. Cartridges also have suspensions that need to break in. I've measured new Dynaudio
drivers that were off 20% before break in. Time and patience of at least 25-40 hours for new speakers.

 

[Bob in WI]

Break in is pretty easy to prove. Measure the T/S specs of your new woofer.Then run them at their fs with your
signal generator for about 2 hours at 2 volts RMS. Re measure and you'll get a big surprise at how the
specs have changed. Mid range and tweeters also have suspensions that need to loosen up a bit to
sound their best. Cartridges also have suspensions that need to break in. I've measured new Dynaudio
drivers that were off 20% before break in. Time and patience of at least 25-40 hours for new speakers.

I had an Accutex that was nearly unlistenable. I put it aside for several years.
I got it out a few months ago, mounted it & played it. It mellowed out after 5 or 6 LPs.
I don't think it will ever be my favorite cart but some use took the hard edge off it.

 

[HPMguy]

Surrounds can change with use -- the repeated flex will soften them up some. Hopefully short term, and reaching a final point less than speaker damage....

I'm less convinced about capacitors, although unused electrolytic will need to re-form. That should not take long. Film caps should not change significantly, even over fairly long periods, else they would not maintain their specs so long.