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Speaker Cable Epiphany

Hyfi

Addicted Member
Let me start by saying I never experimented with speaker cables much over the years. I have heard differences between ICs and have tuned a system or two with interconnects.

When I first started building a decent system, I purchased a pair of Tara Labs Prism Bi-Wire cables as my Mirage 790s had that capability. Once the Mirages were gone and Dynaudios rolled in, they had single posts so I just doubled up the terminations.

In 2008, I bought a whole system from a neighbor that included Synergistic Research Kaleidoscope ICs and a 14 foot pair of Synergistic Research Resolution Reference speaker cables. I know the guy paid somewhere near $1500 for these speaker cables, so I started using them and never switched since thru several pairs of speakers. I figured, hey they were expensive, made by a reputable company, so they must be better than any other cheaper cables I have.

Last year, the same neighbor gifted me a pair of old Rogers speakers as well as some runs of Kimber Kable 4VS Bi-Wire cables. They have been sitting in the misc cable box since then and had been terminated with odd banana plugs with the Rogers spacing on one end and decent single banana plugs on the other.

Over the weekend I decided to have a go at swapping them out just to keep proving to myself the Synergistics were the best I had. I removed the oddball plugs from the speaker end, cut and re-stripped all the individual wires and terminated the 2 runs back to a single run essentially making these cables into a pair of 8VS's.

I crawled behind the gear and swapped the cables. I used the single banana ends at the speaker and terminated the combined bare wires into the amp.

I wasn't sure what to expect, and really expected nothing different because I have read here many times at AK that all speaker wire is the same and you can use extension cords and lamp cords instead of buying real cable because it all sounds the same. So, if you are in that camp, you really should not read any further, or comment.

So, what did I hear? The first thing I noticed was that the deepest bass, which my room was fighting with anyway, was gone. The bass notes were much clearer and articulate but without the overkill I had. Still deep and satisfying, but as if I just treated the room with bass traps or similar.

Then I noticed the Midrange. WOW, it just got bigger. Piano, vocals, percussion all just seemed to double in performance and quality. Acoustic guitars sounded so real. This was not just a subtle change and I was pretty aware of how my system and music sounded. this was a big change but the jury is still out if it is better, worse, or just different but there is definitely differences between speaker cable.

Disk after disk sounds better than before, even ones I do not love the sound of sounded better. I have not switched back yet but really liking the new sound and detail. There is less noise floor which allows for more volume.

I guess the outcome of all this is 2 things for me.

1- Speaker Cables Do Sound Different in the right systems.
2- Just because it cost twice as much does not always mean it is better

Some of this may be down to system matching in the same way you need to pair speakers and amp for the best sound and it is quite possible that the Synergistics may have been the better choice for the original system they came with. VAC-Counterpoint NPS-400-Clearfield Continental speakers)
 
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No offense intended, but if I swapped speaker cables and noticed significantly less bass, I would immediately check to see if I hadn't introduced a polarity mismatch.
After listening for a while, I may not have "lost" bass, but more cleaned up the muddiness. Still plenty there but just seems to fight my room less.

Acoustic guitars, piano, percussion and vocals all seem to pop more. I will swap back after a bit to see if I am nuts or not but for now I am liking what I hear. Less noise between instruments, more detail and accurate sounds of things.
 
Believe it or not cables do break in . I think it may have to do with the dielectric type used.
I have one pair of cables that I made using Ohno continuous cast copper wire with polyethylene dielectric. When ever I move it around it sounds tight and edgy harsh but after a few hours it smooths out.
 
Both of these sets of cables are 25+ years old so pretty well broken in. But yes, movement, disconnect and reconnect all create change.
 
I spent a couple moths testing different cables types ( fine strand, more coarse strand, solid, multiple conductors ect and found they all sounded "slightly' different. I only found one type to be very noticeable like you but they all were slightly different some taking a week or two to tell the difference and be sure of myself. The worse for me was a heavy very fine strand like welding cable wire that really screwed up bass response and was only running for about a half hour before I yanked it, it was that noticeable. Compared to all the others it looked like it sounded, heavy, muffled, slow, just yuck.
 
So I was able to do a little testing by hooking up both sets of cables to A and B outputs and the speakers without removing jumpers. I was able to switch back and forth in real time without changing cables. It was really hard to tell major differences. What I noticed is the Synergistic cables provide a bigger, more airy, live presentation while the Kimbers were tight and clinical delivering a good sound but I prefer the Synergistic cables. Even at 14 foot and coiled up, they sound better so I will stick with them for now.

I have a pair of Tara Labs Prism Biwire cables I need to dig out and do this again sometime.
 
So I was able to do a little testing by hooking up both sets of cables to A and B outputs and the speakers without removing jumpers. I was able to switch back and forth in real time without changing cables. It was really hard to tell major differences.
It is quite possible they have shared grounds so that the cable metrics are combined regardless of switch position.
 
It is quite possible they have shared grounds so that the cable metrics are combined regardless of switch position.
Then shouldn't they both sound the same?

I know it's a slightly flawed test but I have no other way to swap back and forth in real time.
 
My point is that you are no longer comparing cable A to cable B. You may well be comparing cable A+cable B at one switch position to cable A+cable B on the other.

I measured this phenomenon with interconnects and discovered how bogus a test for comparing them was. Follow this link for details...

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...that-are-flexible.933711/page-3#post-14203691

Which is the challenge behind the validity of many such tests. :)
 
Thanks for the input and link E. I just disconnected the Kimbers from the speakers. No night/day changes but I get the point. Maybe there is not a great big difference between the two pairs I tested, but I still feel the Synergistics provide a bigger airy more live sound so plan to stick with them.

It's a shame I have to use Banana adapters at both ends because the Spades are the older smaller size and don't fit my speakers or my amp. They were paired with a Counterpoint NPS-400 and Clearfield speakers all purchased at the same time by original owner. They are also 14 foot long due to how he had the kit setup.
 
Maybe there is not a great big difference between the two pairs I tested, but I still feel the Synergistics provide a bigger airy more live sound so plan to stick with them.
Let your ears and familiar music guide your way! It's a shame there are those who make decisions based upon faulty tests that create null results.
 
If your piano and other percussion seem to have more "pop" or "attack" maybe there were poor quality connections before that did not allow for high transient power transfer, or maybe the cable itself is allowing better transient power transfer. That could explain the "tightening up" of your bass too, better high power transfer.
 
I tested different types of cables for months, IE solid, fine strand, coarser strand ect. I did not compare different brands of the same construction. I can however say the materials as stated above did all sound different. Some took maybe week or more and some were noticed pretty quickly. The results were mostly subtle and they could be used to fine tune something.
 
just be sure to keep expectation bias at bay ...
That is a challenge only when folks try to justify what they've already purchased - I audition anything but cheap cables first.

I purchased my first aftermarket power cords after borrowing three Kimber Palladians from a reviewer friend for a weekend's listening in my system. I was convinced. :)
 
After reading thru this thread I decided to pull the Kimber 8TCs out of the main system, and put my home made 10g OFC cables back in to see which I preferred. I swapped the Furutech FP-202G locking bananas from the Kimbers for the Furez bananas on the OFC to make sure I was just comparing the cable, and I have to say I prefer the OFC over the Kimbers. There seems to be more of everything, especially bass. The highs and mids seem more open now too. Everything just sounds better to me now.. Maybe the higher capacitance of the Kimbers caused the difference? Whatever the case may be the Kimbers have been relegated to the island of misfit cables for the time being.
 
Yep, would agree with @E-Stat . I used to think there was no way a simple power cable could make much of a difference; how can it? Its not in the signal path; is a short piece of wire between the gear and the wall. And to boot, anything good starts at 1K and heads north fast......

A good friend of mine is a Shunyata dealer. He let me try out 3 Shunyata power cords, 2K each new. I had set my expectations low, maybe I would hear a slight change. Was a bit much trying to wrap my head around the fact that I just installed 6K worth of power cords.

But was still quite convinced they would not do much or make a small delta.
I used them on the Monoblocks and the 3rd on the preamp. Powered everything up, played the first tune, and my jaw hit the floor. Had never heard the clarity and dynamics like that before.
 
Its not in the signal path; is a short piece of wire between the gear and the wall.
While the power supply is not *directly* in the signal path, it's been my experience that it has a decided effect on what you hear in terms of transparency and dynamics. I first learned after significantly beefing up the power supply of an Audire power amp as a teen in the 70s. And remains true for choosing a power supply for modern devices like DACs and streamers where I've experimented widely.

Had never heard the clarity and dynamics like that before.
Not at all surprised.
 
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