Speaker Cable Epiphany

[mcgjohn]

While the power supply is not *directly* in the signal path, it's been my experience that it has a decided effect on what you hear in terms of transparency and dynamics. I first learned after significantly beefing up the power supply of an Audire power amp as a teen in the 70s. And remains true for choosing a power supply for modern devices like DACs and streamers where I've experimented widely.

yes, would agree completely now.

 

[Hyfi]

Since this thread has already strayed, let me muddy it more.

XLR Cables are different sounding than each other and RCAs

I just put a set of Nordost White Lightening in place of a generic 15 foot set of XLRs I was loaned. That was already a noticeable difference over my Synergistic RCAs (Note: in my gear in my room. Mileage may vary)

The top end Detail has just upped it's game big time. A bit more gain so volume had to get rolled back a little. Low level listening is also sweet.

From my personal experience, knowing my ears also need to adjust as well as the component, I have found noticeable differences in cables from RCAs, to Power, to Speaker, to XLRs. It sure is fun.

 

[Macaroonie]

Always take into consideration the effect of ' cleaning ' the contacts by swapping over.
XLR's and Speakon and Din all have self wiping contacts ( except the chinee ones )

 

[Hyfi]

Today I dug out my old Tara Labs Prism Bi-Wire cables and swapped out the Synergistics. These are much better than the Kimbers I tried. Lots of bass, detail, airy and open. They may stay in play for a while. The Tars were the first "expensive" speaker cables I ever bought and they still perform well.

The Nordost XLRs have really settled in and the initial brightness is gone. Pretty happy overall with the journey and destination. These Fynes are just incredible at both high and lower volumes. The Luxman is killer and the Rotel CDP is also a great performer.

 

[Bob in WI]

IME, I've heard a difference in speaker cable as it relates to gage.
Some say speaker cable can be 14ga. Maybe so but any less & resistance increases & it affects the sound (prominent loss of bass in my system).
I've found quality interconnects have a more noticeable effect connecting a TT. From CD player & tuner, not so much.
OTOH, I don't have $500+ wires so maybe there's magic I'm missing.

 

[Akustic]

IME, I've heard a difference in speaker cable as it relates to gage.
Some say speaker cable can be 14ga. Maybe so but any less & resistance increases & it affects the sound (prominent loss of bass in my system).
I've found quality interconnects have a more noticeable effect connecting a TT. From CD player & tuner, not so much.
OTOH, I don't have $500+ wires so maybe there's magic I'm missing.

Which cables have you tried ??

The resolution of the system affects what you can hear ..so does your ear.
Your components are capable ..
It's all a chain so it's only as good as it's least transparent piece ..
Because of that, I've always considered the wire in the signal path as one more component in the chain ..

Experimenting with the pieces that the signal travels on between the components can pay dividends ..
After messing with them, my bare minimum standard has become at minimum something that is engineered for an audio signal and in use by the professional audio industry ..
Not at all expensive and made to be carrying an audio signal.
Canare and Mogami both make excellent products for prices that are more or less competitive with Home Depot wire prices..

The idea that you can throw any piece of wire that conducts electricity into the signal path without having any affect on the audio signal in the wire isn't supported
by the laws of physics ..

 

[Bob in WI]

Which cables have you tried ??

The resolution of the system affects what you can hear ..so does your ear.
Your components are capable ..
It's all a chain so it's only as good as it's least transparent piece ..
Because of that, I've always considered the wire in the signal path as one more component in the chain ..

Experimenting with the pieces that the signal travels on between the components can pay dividends ..
After messing with them, my bare minimum standard has become at minimum something that is engineered for an audio signal and in use by the professional audio industry ..
Not at all expensive and made to be carrying an audio signal.
Canare and Mogami both make excellent products for prices that are more or less competitive with Home Depot wire prices..

The idea that you can throw any piece of wire that conducts electricity into the signal path without having any affect on the audio signal in the wire isn't supported
by the laws of physics ..

I made my own speaker cables from Canare 4S11. Interconnects are also home made (not by me) from Mogami Neglex 2534 microphone cable. Those work fine but I haven't run any head to head comparisons.
We do know that resistance decreases w increasing gage (up to a point) so thats where my post was coming from and that I have heard myself.
I don't intend to dive any deeper into the wire/ cable pool than I've already gone - other improvements are chasing my coins.

 

[Akustic]

I made my own speaker cables from Canare 4S11. Interconnects are also home made (not by me) from Mogami Neglex 2534 microphone cable. Those work fine but I haven't run any head to head comparisons.
We do know that resistance decreases w increasing gage (up to a point) so thats where my post was coming from and that I have heard myself.
I don't intend to dive any deeper into the wire/ cable pool than I've already gone - other improvements are chasing my coins.

Well that makes perfect sense .. especially as regards value.
The big jump in sound quality comes when you move from garden variety to purpose-made ..
After that the improvement per dollar spent ratio falls in the toilet. fast .. IME
It's mostly a lot of "Shades of tonal emphasis" in my experience .. works to get to synergy with the gear at the budget end, but ..

And I can't but agree agree as regards gauge of the wire ..
I found a significant improvement in bass with 4S11 over 4s8 in every component combination that I've messed with.
Similar wire and construction .. only the gauge changes... 11ga vs 16ga

Rolling your own works for me too ..
Pure value for me since I refuse to add connectors into the chain .. strip the wire and smash it into the terminals.
Enjoy the music ..

 

[Bob in WI]

Similar wire and construction .. only the gauge changes... 11ga vs 16ga

Depending on the length, bet that change was pretty obvious.

 

[Joe Dawson]

Let me start by saying I never experimented with speaker cables much over the years. I have heard differences between ICs and have tuned a system or two with interconnects.

When I first started building a decent system, I purchased a pair of Tara Labs Prism Bi-Wire cables as my Mirage 790s had that capability. Once the Mirages were gone and Dynaudios rolled in, they had single posts so I just doubled up the terminations.

In 2008, I bought a whole system from a neighbor that included Synergistic Research Kaleidoscope ICs and a 14 foot pair of Synergistic Research Resolution Reference speaker cables. I know the guy paid somewhere near $1500 for these speaker cables, so I started using them and never switched since thru several pairs of speakers. I figured, hey they were expensive, made by a reputable company, so they must be better than any other cheaper cables I have.

Last year, the same neighbor gifted me a pair of old Rogers speakers as well as some runs of Kimber Kable 4VS Bi-Wire cables. They have been sitting in the misc cable box since then and had been terminated with odd banana plugs with the Rogers spacing on one end and decent single banana plugs on the other.

Over the weekend I decided to have a go at swapping them out just to keep proving to myself the Synergistics were the best I had. I removed the oddball plugs from the speaker end, cut and re-stripped all the individual wires and terminated the 2 runs back to a single run essentially making these cables into a pair of 8VS's.

I crawled behind the gear and swapped the cables. I used the single banana ends at the speaker and terminated the combined bare wires into the amp.

I wasn't sure what to expect, and really expected nothing different because I have read here many times at AK that all speaker wire is the same and you can use extension cords and lamp cords instead of buying real cable because it all sounds the same. So, if you are in that camp, you really should not read any further, or comment.

So, what did I hear? The first thing I noticed was that the deepest bass, which my room was fighting with anyway, was gone. The bass notes were much clearer and articulate but without the overkill I had. Still deep and satisfying, but as if I just treated the room with bass traps or similar.

Then I noticed the Midrange. WOW, it just got bigger. Piano, vocals, percussion all just seemed to double in performance and quality. Acoustic guitars sounded so real. This was not just a subtle change and I was pretty aware of how my system and music sounded. this was a big change but the jury is still out if it is better, worse, or just different but there is definitely differences between speaker cable.

Disk after disk sounds better than before, even ones I do not love the sound of sounded better. I have not switched back yet but really liking the new sound and detail. There is less noise floor which allows for more volume.

I guess the outcome of all this is 2 things for me.

1- Speaker Cables Do Sound Different in the right systems.
2- Just because it cost twice as much does not always mean it is better

Some of this may be down to system matching in the same way you need to pair speakers and amp for the best sound and it is quite possible that the Synergistics may have been the better choice for the original system they came with. VAC-Counterpoint NPS-400-Clearfield Continental speakers)

I agree, speaker wire size makes a difference. Also, 6N stranded copper wire
sounds different than 3N solid wire from the store. Silver different than copper.
Silver coated copper is also different.

I have also gotten to the point that the total gauge makes a difference. I have "tuned"
my system in the ~130hz +/- broad range. Right now I am using 10 five foot length
18 gauge wires in both the red and black speaker leads.(Equates to ~9.2 gauge.
As mentioned above, the gauge will depend upon the system output Z and speaker Z.)

If I go to nine or 11, the sound is not optimum. In the typical minimum Z zone
(reactive, cone type speakers), the effect is most pronounced..

Changing one of the 10 wires in each leg to 6N made a profound sonic difference.

keep on truckin

joe

 

[Akustic]

I agree, speaker wire size makes a difference. Also, 6N stranded copper wire
sounds different than 3N solid wire from the store. Silver different than copper.
Silver coated copper is also different.

I have also gotten to the point that the total gauge makes a difference. I have "tuned"
my system in the ~130hz +/- broad range. Right now I am using 10 five foot length
18 gauge wires in both the red and black speaker leads.(Equates to ~9.2 gauge.
As mentioned above, the gauge will depend upon the system output Z and speaker Z.)

If I go to nine or 11, the sound is not optimum. In the typical minimum Z zone
(reactive, cone type speakers), the effect is most pronounced..

Changing one of the 10 wires in each leg to 6N made a profound sonic difference.

keep on truckin

joe

Wire coatings have a substantial effect on the sonics also ..

Each material has differing dielectric properties with the most di-electrically stable coating offering the most clarity ..
The most stable being Teflon, then x-linked polypropylene, then lesser materials ..

It's surprising how much slight hash and grunge is blurring the details of the instruments ..
It can disappear when you switch to wire with a better coating ..
It's one of those moments where the absence of it makes you realize that it was there in the first place ..
Clarity is a good thing ..