• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

(Speaker cables) Does stranding size make a difference?

jhoyt

jhoyt

Incomprehensible space llama
I have access to some stranded 12ga. cable, perfect length for speaker cables. But it was power cable from an uber-extension cord, so it's not the finely-stranded normal speaker cable stuff. The strands themselves are probably in the 28ga. range.

Now: is there any drawback to using this cable, as opposed to the finely stranded stuff?
 
Register to hide this ad
Hello jhoyt,

That is a good question with many answers.....

I am sure that what you have will work and sound great...oops sorry...

I keep reading that this brand or that brand of speaker wire "sounds" good....

I keep putting my ear up close to mine and I hear nothing....:yippy:

The speaker wire will not sound good...But it will allow your speakers to sound good...:):):):)

You will find many opinions here on what kind/which speaker wire is the best...

And if you search the internet you can find a lot of information....

There is "research" that states that the finer strands may be better and that the finer the "grain" of the strands the better also....and on and on and on...

Now that does not mean I am discounting it...Just that there is a lot of "research" and many opinions....To back up all claims....

And remember it is all about the :music::music::music::music:
 
Don't say that, John, someone might take you seriously! Because electrons move at the speed of light, and color is just light absorption/reflection, darker colored insulation absorbs more electrons, thus robbing music of its living dynamics...blah, blah, blah...
 
jhoyt said:
I have access to some stranded 12ga. cable, perfect length for speaker cables. But it was power cable from an uber-extension cord, so it's not the finely-stranded normal speaker cable stuff. The strands themselves are probably in the 28ga. range.

Now: is there any drawback to using this cable, as opposed to the finely stranded stuff?
Click to expand...

There is only one way to find out and that's by trying it for yourself.

There are folks that can't hear a difference and folks who can, but it's always the folks that can't hear a difference putting down the folks that can......interesting fact, isn't it!?!
 
There's an interesting paper called "The Essex Echo" written by Malcolm Omar Hawksford. Do a quick Google search and you'll find it and be able to download it. It's pretty technical, but I could follow it fairly well and I'm no Rocket Surgeon (or is it Brain Scientist??) His conclusion is that fine stranded cable is inferior. I agree. I'll put my home brew Cat 5 against anything.
 
F1nut said:
There is only one way to find out and that's by trying it for yourself.

There are folks that can't hear a difference and folks who can, but it's always the folks that can't hear a difference putting down the folks that can......interesting fact, isn't it!?!
Click to expand...

Well, I'd love to sell some of them that can hear the difference cables at some of those prices out there. Can you hear the difference your power cord makes? I've seen power cords and interconnects listed at over $2000 for a half-meter, single cable.

I think most of them are for people with more dollars than sense.
 
More strands=greater resistance (very slight) but more flexibility. Not really an issue. Now the insulation color.....:zoom:
 
more strands should =less R. R in//= Rtotal less than R. Least thats what my ohms law says. am I missing something?
 
On my high resolution system, I could hear slight improvement on kimber 4VS versus kimber 4PR all else being equal.

VS has variable stranding and offers heavier wires in the stranding.

notice that despite the high resolution of the measuring equipment used the resistance does not change depending on the stranding.



4VS specs.
4VS
Basic Electrical Specifications
DUT: 4VS 2.5m bare wire ends.

• (Cp) parallel capacitance: 340.0 pF @ 20 kHz
• (Ls) series inductance: 0.596 H @ 20 kHz
• (Rdc) dc loop resistance: 0.041
• (Xt) total reactance: 0.075 @ 20 kHz
• Frequency response ? 0.5 dB dc - 250 kHz
Click to expand...
http://www.kimber.com/Products/LoudSpeakerCables/4VS/4VS_Spec.aspx
4pr specs
4PR
Basic Electrical Specifications
DUT: 4PR 2.5m bare wire ends.

• (Cp) parallel capacitance: 312.0 pF @ 20 kHz
• (Ls) series inductance: 0.654 H @ 20 kHz
• (Rdc) dc loop resistance: 0.041
• (Xt) total reactance: 0.0825 @ 20 kHz
• Frequency response ? 0.5 dB dc - 100 kHz
Click to expand...
doubters can feel free to flame on.:D
cheers,
tal
 
qboneus said:
notice that despite the high resolution of the measuring equipment used the resistance does not change depending on the stranding.
Click to expand...

I rely on the National Electrical Code (NEC) Chapter 9 Table 8 entitled Conductor Properties for reliable information. In EVERY case where stranded is compared to solid, stranded has a higher resistance. I'll admit to extrapolating to arrive at the assumption that even more strands will equal even more resistance. If one strand has less resistance than 7 strands, why would one assume that 70 strands would fare any better? Stranding gains you flexibility for sure, with a slight increase in resistance. Very slight to be sure as in tenths of ohms/1000'. "High resolution" measuring equipment will not reveal such a small difference with a cable a few feet long. This doesn't change the fact that the resistance is indeed higher. Flame on.
 
I'll have a run at answering the op's original question.

12 gauge copper wire can handle 20 amperes of current indefinitely. For short distance runs it's rated for 40 amperes. It'll handle the job of speaker wire on any amp a consumer is ever likely to own without breaking a sweat.

The difference in conductivity between 12 gauge solid and 12 gauge stranded is negligible. Solid copper has a resistance of approximately 1.6 ohms per 1,000 feet of wire. Stranded might be a few hundredths of an ohm higher. Trust me, there's no significant difference.

Your wire will be just fine.
 
Fisherdude said:
I'll have a run at answering the op's original question.

12 gauge copper wire can handle 20 amperes of current indefinitely. For short distance runs it's rated for 40 amperes. It'll handle the job of speaker wire on any amp a consumer is ever likely to own without breaking a sweat.

The difference in conductivity between 12 gauge solid and 12 gauge stranded is negligible. Solid copper has a resistance of approximately 1.6 ohms per 1,000 feet of wire. Stranded might be a few hundredths of an ohm higher. Trust me, there's no significant difference.

Your wire will be just fine.
Click to expand...

Wire ampacity has NOTHING to do with length. The 40A number (for single conductors in free air) is a starting point for deratings. Its rated for a max of 20A regardless of length. Solid is 1.93 ohms/1000', stranded is 1.98 ohms/1000'. As we both stated there's no "significant" difference. I suppose that depends upon your personal definition of "significant". People spend thousands of dollars for what I deem "insignificant" gains. I concur his wire will be fine (unless he is of the belief megohms make a difference).
 
cwall99 said:
Well, I'd love to sell some of them that can hear the difference cables at some of those prices out there. Can you hear the difference your power cord makes? I've seen power cords and interconnects listed at over $2000 for a half-meter, single cable.

I think most of them are for people with more dollars than sense.
Click to expand...

Actually, yes I can and thanks for bolstering the fact I noted.
 
F1nut said:
There is only one way to find out and that's by trying it for yourself.

There are folks that can't hear a difference and folks who can, but it's always the folks that can't hear a difference putting down the folks that can......interesting fact, isn't it!?!
Click to expand...

Interesting statement F1. Noted. Perhaps you may consider applying the same theory at other internet sites.

Paul
 
In my limited experience, the actual plugs (male/female) make a difference.

I'm not sure if they make them but you can try hospital grade plugs or wall outlets....
 
F1nut said:
There are folks that can't hear a difference and folks who can, but it's always the folks that can't hear a difference putting down the folks that can......interesting fact, isn't it!?!
Click to expand...

Except for it's not fact.

The naysayers say you're imagining/hearing things, and have recently met with P.T. Barnum, proponents say you're deaf and/or your equipment is junk, and that you need open your mind to possibilities.

There is equal condescension handed down from both sides.
 
whoaru99 said:
Except for it's not fact.

The naysayers say you're imagining/hearing things, and have recently met with P.T. Barnum, proponents say you're deaf and/or your equipment is junk, and that you need open your mind to possibilities.

There is equal condescension handed down from both sides.
Click to expand...

You know, I should have stated that it's the naysayers that always start it, but you're right that it becomes a back and forth type of thing in the end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom