Lavane
Lunatic Member
Those look just as bad as what I replaced.
Speakers of soviet union
- Thread starter JungleFever
- Start date
maxhifi
Addicted Member
They're often totally open. Those speakers contain a handful of 10uF capacitors on the overload board, would be a quick job to change them for someone with soldering experience. On the other hand I would not change the crossover capacitors unless bad. They're the good paper capacitors. These speakers have awesome crossovers (see photo of example from the internet)
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Thanks for the review — it’s interesting to hear how gear we never get over here sounds. I’d love to come across a nice Russian reel to reel machine (there’s some beauties), but the chance of that in North America are close to zero…
markshan
Sir Thrift a Lot
It's all good. We're just happy that Putin isn't renovating your house.
JungleFever
New Member
Sure, no problem. Yeah, and a lot of things from over the Atlantic are a rarity here. Especially here in eastern Europe - it's a whole different universe.
sadly, Putin does the opposite of renovating - he destroys.
Hi everyone. I’ve owned almost all of the major Soviet speakers, as well as many vintage and modern speakers of different levels.
Various JBL L112s, Yamaha NS-1000 Monitors, Advents, Braun L810s, Technics SB-8s.
At the moment, my favorites are the Focal Electra 915, and I recently had the JBL HDI 3600, JBL Studio 690, Magnepan, and Canton Ergo RCL. These are also quite good.
I’ve also owned some inexpensive modern speakers, such as MB Quart X8, Magnat Zero 5, Jamo C605, Acoustic Energy Aegis, and Wharfedale Denton.
My amplifiers and DACs are also of a decent level — Denafrips Pontus and so on.
So, not all Soviet speakers are worth paying attention to, but about half of them have their own unique charm in the way they sound. And considering how cheap they are, that charm becomes even more attractive.
Vega 15AS-109, 25AS-101, 15AS-220, and Radiotehnika S30B — these bookshelf speakers offer some of the best price-to-performance ratios and are aimed at music lovers.
They have something I have very rarely encountered in any other speakers outside the Soviet school of audio: warmth and a kind of hippie vibe.
It is somewhat similar to the sound of a tube amplifier, but without a tube amplifier.
And this can create a kind of hypnotic, blissful effect with beautiful music.
If we consider the Radiotehnika S30 or S30A, almost none of that magic is there.
I only like the 8-ohm version of the S30B, which is essentially the second generation of Radiotehnika bookshelf speakers from the mid-1980s.
Kometa and Nota speakers are also good, but they are rarer and somewhat simpler than the Vega.
However, they share the same mid-bass driver, the 25GDN-3-4. It has a large magnet and produces a pleasant, magical sound with a lot of even-order harmonic content.
If you look at this rationally, all these Soviet speakers have quite a lot of distortion, and their sound is fairly dirty.
But tube amplifiers also have plenty of distortion, and yet their sound can be very pleasant and harmonious.
If we put the poetic impressions aside, these bookshelf speakers are roughly comparable in class to something like the Wharfedale Diamond 8 or JBL XTi 10.
They are fairly modest entry-level hi-fi, but the Soviet bookshelf speakers have a lot of honey and soul in their sound.
Of course, not everyone will appreciate this. Everyone has different tastes.
Another group of successful Soviet speakers would be the Radiotehnika S90B, S90D, and S90F. These are also part of the upgraded 8-ohm series and are fundamentally different from the 4-ohm S90s — and much better.
These are large speakers with fairly good sound and a certain amount of warmth and musicality.
However, they are no longer as cheap as the bookshelf models, so expectations naturally become higher.
Nevertheless, the S90B was able to beat the Cerwin-Vega VS-10, although it did not go dramatically further in terms of hi-fi quality.
Overall, the VS-10 is roughly what you can expect from an S90B, but with slightly less warmth and less bass.
There are also speakers such as the Estonia 021. They sound roughly like the S90B, but they are rarer and more expensive.
There were also Polish speakers from that era, such as the Unitra Tonsil ZG40. They are roughly comparable to the S90B in overall performance and are certainly no worse in terms of warmth and soulfulness.
There are also Yugoslavian speakers such as the HZK 12031. They were fitted with poor-quality capacitors that seriously degraded their sound.
After replacing the capacitors with any modern ones, the 12031 sounds surprisingly mature. Honestly, I think it sounds better than the Advent Loudspeaker, roughly comparable to the Yamaha NS-500, and it leaves the Soviet speakers behind.
As for the most recognizable Soviet speakers, such as the 4-ohm S-90 and their numerous variations sold under names such as 35AS — Orbita, Elektronika, Amfiton, Korvet, and Kliver — all of these speakers have powerful bass and can play quite loudly.
But they were designed more for dancing and bass lovers than for serious music listening.
In terms of sound quality, I would put them roughly in the same class as the JBL Studio 180 or JBL S312.
Basic entry-level sound without much refinement, plus quite a lot of distortion from the shouty midrange and treble.
Still, I think this is fairly comparable to many inexpensive Cerwin-Vega speakers.
Although the Cerwin-Vega VS-10 or Magnat Zero 5 sound somewhat better than the 4-ohm S-90.
Maybe my tastes are too specific, but even though I have Focal Electra 915, Denafrips Pontus 15, and Classe CA-150, I always keep a collection of Soviet bookshelf speakers.
Because they give me something that very few speakers can provide:
that musical, tube-like, slightly stoned kind of hypnosis.
And that kind of sound can also be produced by the Advent Loudspeaker, Victor SX-5, Unitra ZG40, and, to some extent, Magnepan.
Of course, you can get a similar kind of sound quite easily from almost any speakers simply by connecting them to a tube amplifier.
As for the less successful and ordinary Soviet speakers, these are mostly models with an 8-inch woofer. And there are no successful ones among them.
They come in two-way and three-way configurations, but their sound is often very similar to the JBL XTI 20. Nothing special.
In general, inexpensive and less successful JBL models, such as the XTI, TLX, Studio 130 and 180, or S312, have a surprising amount in common in sound character and class with many less successful Soviet speakers.
Well, perhaps with the exception that almost no Soviet speakers are well suited for rock and metal.
And JBL, in most cases, handles this much better.
Soviet speakers, especially the 4ohm C90, were clearly designed for disco music with powerful drums and bass guitar, like Abba, the Bee Gees, and so on.
Various JBL L112s, Yamaha NS-1000 Monitors, Advents, Braun L810s, Technics SB-8s.
At the moment, my favorites are the Focal Electra 915, and I recently had the JBL HDI 3600, JBL Studio 690, Magnepan, and Canton Ergo RCL. These are also quite good.
I’ve also owned some inexpensive modern speakers, such as MB Quart X8, Magnat Zero 5, Jamo C605, Acoustic Energy Aegis, and Wharfedale Denton.
My amplifiers and DACs are also of a decent level — Denafrips Pontus and so on.
So, not all Soviet speakers are worth paying attention to, but about half of them have their own unique charm in the way they sound. And considering how cheap they are, that charm becomes even more attractive.
Vega 15AS-109, 25AS-101, 15AS-220, and Radiotehnika S30B — these bookshelf speakers offer some of the best price-to-performance ratios and are aimed at music lovers.
They have something I have very rarely encountered in any other speakers outside the Soviet school of audio: warmth and a kind of hippie vibe.
It is somewhat similar to the sound of a tube amplifier, but without a tube amplifier.
And this can create a kind of hypnotic, blissful effect with beautiful music.
If we consider the Radiotehnika S30 or S30A, almost none of that magic is there.
I only like the 8-ohm version of the S30B, which is essentially the second generation of Radiotehnika bookshelf speakers from the mid-1980s.
Kometa and Nota speakers are also good, but they are rarer and somewhat simpler than the Vega.
However, they share the same mid-bass driver, the 25GDN-3-4. It has a large magnet and produces a pleasant, magical sound with a lot of even-order harmonic content.
If you look at this rationally, all these Soviet speakers have quite a lot of distortion, and their sound is fairly dirty.
But tube amplifiers also have plenty of distortion, and yet their sound can be very pleasant and harmonious.
If we put the poetic impressions aside, these bookshelf speakers are roughly comparable in class to something like the Wharfedale Diamond 8 or JBL XTi 10.
They are fairly modest entry-level hi-fi, but the Soviet bookshelf speakers have a lot of honey and soul in their sound.
Of course, not everyone will appreciate this. Everyone has different tastes.
Another group of successful Soviet speakers would be the Radiotehnika S90B, S90D, and S90F. These are also part of the upgraded 8-ohm series and are fundamentally different from the 4-ohm S90s — and much better.
These are large speakers with fairly good sound and a certain amount of warmth and musicality.
However, they are no longer as cheap as the bookshelf models, so expectations naturally become higher.
Nevertheless, the S90B was able to beat the Cerwin-Vega VS-10, although it did not go dramatically further in terms of hi-fi quality.
Overall, the VS-10 is roughly what you can expect from an S90B, but with slightly less warmth and less bass.
There are also speakers such as the Estonia 021. They sound roughly like the S90B, but they are rarer and more expensive.
There were also Polish speakers from that era, such as the Unitra Tonsil ZG40. They are roughly comparable to the S90B in overall performance and are certainly no worse in terms of warmth and soulfulness.
There are also Yugoslavian speakers such as the HZK 12031. They were fitted with poor-quality capacitors that seriously degraded their sound.
After replacing the capacitors with any modern ones, the 12031 sounds surprisingly mature. Honestly, I think it sounds better than the Advent Loudspeaker, roughly comparable to the Yamaha NS-500, and it leaves the Soviet speakers behind.
As for the most recognizable Soviet speakers, such as the 4-ohm S-90 and their numerous variations sold under names such as 35AS — Orbita, Elektronika, Amfiton, Korvet, and Kliver — all of these speakers have powerful bass and can play quite loudly.
But they were designed more for dancing and bass lovers than for serious music listening.
In terms of sound quality, I would put them roughly in the same class as the JBL Studio 180 or JBL S312.
Basic entry-level sound without much refinement, plus quite a lot of distortion from the shouty midrange and treble.
Still, I think this is fairly comparable to many inexpensive Cerwin-Vega speakers.
Although the Cerwin-Vega VS-10 or Magnat Zero 5 sound somewhat better than the 4-ohm S-90.
Maybe my tastes are too specific, but even though I have Focal Electra 915, Denafrips Pontus 15, and Classe CA-150, I always keep a collection of Soviet bookshelf speakers.
Because they give me something that very few speakers can provide:
that musical, tube-like, slightly stoned kind of hypnosis.
And that kind of sound can also be produced by the Advent Loudspeaker, Victor SX-5, Unitra ZG40, and, to some extent, Magnepan.
Of course, you can get a similar kind of sound quite easily from almost any speakers simply by connecting them to a tube amplifier.
As for the less successful and ordinary Soviet speakers, these are mostly models with an 8-inch woofer. And there are no successful ones among them.
They come in two-way and three-way configurations, but their sound is often very similar to the JBL XTI 20. Nothing special.
In general, inexpensive and less successful JBL models, such as the XTI, TLX, Studio 130 and 180, or S312, have a surprising amount in common in sound character and class with many less successful Soviet speakers.
Well, perhaps with the exception that almost no Soviet speakers are well suited for rock and metal.
And JBL, in most cases, handles this much better.
Soviet speakers, especially the 4ohm C90, were clearly designed for disco music with powerful drums and bass guitar, like Abba, the Bee Gees, and so on.
All large three-way 4-ohm speakers with 75GDN-1-4 have low, powerful, but monotonous bass. The cone has a lot of mass and inertia, and the sound is more like a subwoofer, and can sometimes boom at high volumes. It also struggles to play its high range.
Amphiton models have a similar woofer, but with a lighter excursion and a polyurethane foam surround; it's called the 75GDN-3-4. It's faster and more accurate. It plays better in the 200-500Hz range, but at a slight cost to bass depth.
They've improved the bass response in the 8-ohm S90 speakers, and the woofer no longer has any issues, even though it's similar in appearance to the 75GDN-1.
There were also models with isodynamic tweeters. 25ac-027, 25ac-033, 35ac-130, but I wouldn't say it was a successful experiment.
The isodynamic sound is slightly cleaner than Soviet-era dome tweeters, but their narrow directivity, general fragility, and lack of repairability make these speakers undesirable.
At the current age of 40, almost all of these tweeters are half-dead. Although repair kits exist, that's a geek's hobby.
Amphiton models have a similar woofer, but with a lighter excursion and a polyurethane foam surround; it's called the 75GDN-3-4. It's faster and more accurate. It plays better in the 200-500Hz range, but at a slight cost to bass depth.
They've improved the bass response in the 8-ohm S90 speakers, and the woofer no longer has any issues, even though it's similar in appearance to the 75GDN-1.
There were also models with isodynamic tweeters. 25ac-027, 25ac-033, 35ac-130, but I wouldn't say it was a successful experiment.
The isodynamic sound is slightly cleaner than Soviet-era dome tweeters, but their narrow directivity, general fragility, and lack of repairability make these speakers undesirable.
At the current age of 40, almost all of these tweeters are half-dead. Although repair kits exist, that's a geek's hobby.
maxhifi
Addicted Member
I have a pair of 15АС-213 which use this bass driver. It looks very nicely made, but they are not very sensitive, and it is difficult to call it clean sounding, but it is pleasant. The 15АС-213 speaker is very much let down by the oval 6GDB-2 tweeter, which seems to be even less sensitive than the woofer.
So is having comprehensive knowledge of obsolete hi-fi gear, but hey, we're all having fun lol
When I first got the 15AS-213, I was a little disappointed. Compared with some of the more successful models, they sounded rather uninteresting, and the only thing that really surprised me was how much bass such small speakers could produce.
For example, the 15AS-220 (10AS-225) looks quite similar to the 213, but sounds much better — it has a completely different character.
I also have my own personal anti-ranking of Soviet bookshelf speakers: the 10AS-232, 10MAS, 10GDSH, 50AS-106, and 6AS-511, 15ас-214. None of them really live up to my expectations.
However, I was listening to all of them with a Yamaha A-9.
Then I got the Tonewinner AD-2500 Pro, a powerful amplifier with a kind of Harman Kardon-like character, and some of these speakers suddenly opened up in a completely different way.
The 15AS-213, which had been an outsider, turned into a pretty decent pair of speakers.
The Vega 50AS-106, which had sounded sad, stuffy, and at the same time somewhat raspy, suddenly turned into a rock cowboy.
And the speakers using the 10GDSH full-range driver — the 10AS-203, Romantika, and Mayak — actually respond quite well to the Chinese clone of the Dartzeel NHB-108. It gives them a smoother, more tube-like character.
A lot depends on the amplifier, but there are still some speakers that I simply couldn't make sound engaging, no matter what amplifier I connected to them.
For example, the 15AS-220 (10AS-225) looks quite similar to the 213, but sounds much better — it has a completely different character.
I also have my own personal anti-ranking of Soviet bookshelf speakers: the 10AS-232, 10MAS, 10GDSH, 50AS-106, and 6AS-511, 15ас-214. None of them really live up to my expectations.
However, I was listening to all of them with a Yamaha A-9.
Then I got the Tonewinner AD-2500 Pro, a powerful amplifier with a kind of Harman Kardon-like character, and some of these speakers suddenly opened up in a completely different way.
The 15AS-213, which had been an outsider, turned into a pretty decent pair of speakers.
The Vega 50AS-106, which had sounded sad, stuffy, and at the same time somewhat raspy, suddenly turned into a rock cowboy.
And the speakers using the 10GDSH full-range driver — the 10AS-203, Romantika, and Mayak — actually respond quite well to the Chinese clone of the Dartzeel NHB-108. It gives them a smoother, more tube-like character.
A lot depends on the amplifier, but there are still some speakers that I simply couldn't make sound engaging, no matter what amplifier I connected to them.
maxhifi
Addicted Member
When I first got the 15AS-213, I was a little disappointed. Compared with some of the more successful models, they sounded rather uninteresting, and the only thing that really surprised me was how much bass such small speakers could produce.
For example, the 15AS-220 (10AS-225) looks quite similar to the 213, but sounds much better — it has a completely different character.
I also have my own personal anti-ranking of Soviet bookshelf speakers: the 10AS-232, 10MAS, 10GDSH, 50AS-106, and 6AS-511, 15ас-214. None of them really live up to my expectations.
However, I was listening to all of them with a Yamaha A-9.
Then I got the Tonewinner AD-2500 Pro, a powerful amplifier with a kind of Harman Kardon-like character, and some of these speakers suddenly opened up in a completely different way.
The 15AS-213, which had been an outsider, turned into a pretty decent pair of speakers.
The Vega 50AS-106, which had sounded sad, stuffy, and at the same time somewhat raspy, suddenly turned into a rock cowboy.
And the speakers using the 10GDSH full-range driver — the 10AS-203, Romantika, and Mayak — actually respond quite well to the Chinese clone of the Dartzeel NHB-108. It gives them a smoother, more tube-like character.
A lot depends on the amplifier, but there are still some speakers that I simply couldn't make sound engaging, no matter what amplifier I connected to them.
Hmm, I think I could try the 15AS-213 with a different amplifier. I did use them with some rather good amplifiers, but maybe it needs more playing around.
Did you repair the crossover at all in yours? Mine are totally original. The crossover components tested okay. I found adding a small piece of fiberglass stuffing tightened the bass in a useful way, but it seems there is still a gap in the response in the midrange. I might try a bit harder with them, since I really believe the midbass drivers have more potential than is realized in the 15AS-213
Given your knowledge of USSR speakers, have you ever heard the 5GDSH-4 arrays that some people make? I've been curious about them, from photos online it looks like they have taken the old sweet sixteen idea to the next level.
I've heard that the 5GDSH drivers came in many different versions and sizes, and there are even oval ones. Sometimes they are called 6GDSH. It's basically a whole separate world of full-range drivers taken from old Soviet TVs and radios.
I know that a small number of enthusiasts build home open-baffle arrays using large numbers of these drivers. And I suppose there is some logic to it, especially with a tube amplifier — you can get a large-scale sound with very high sensitivity.
But it's such a strange hobby. It's roughly like building a three-meter-long pterodactyl model in your bedroom.
I suspect they are more interested in the process of searching for the drivers and building the system than in the final sound of the system itself.
I had two pairs of 5GDSH drivers, one 4-ohm pair and one 8-ohm pair.
With a solid-state amplifier, they don't sound particularly impressive. They just sound like an old speaker from a television.
But if you use 15 pairs of them at once, maybe the effect is completely different.
There was a guy who wanted to buy my Accuphase Pro-6 amplifier to power his open-baffle array, whose impedance dropped below 2 ohms.
I told him he was crazy and that it would make more sense to build a system with a normal impedance rather than look for a special amplifier for such a bizarre application.
There is also a certain hype around very old drivers, such as the drivers from Simfonia speakers or some concert speakers from the 1960s.
I'm pretty far removed from that whole world.
It reminds me of the obsession some people have with old Altec drivers.
Except that with Soviet drivers, it's much cheaper — and probably sounds much worse.
As for speaker crossovers, in most cases Soviet speakers used capacitors that were not particularly prone to aging — various sealed film or metallized-paper types.
So they generally don't require servicing.
However, the quality control during production was sometimes so poor that small assembly mistakes are not uncommon.
They might have accidentally reversed the polarity at the speaker terminal, for example, or at the terminal of an individual driver.
In theory, something like a third of Soviet speakers may have been assembled with some kind of minor mistake.
So it can be worthwhile to compare them with the original schematic and check for these errors — especially if two speakers from the same pair don't sound identical, have different bass, different imaging, etc.
I know that a small number of enthusiasts build home open-baffle arrays using large numbers of these drivers. And I suppose there is some logic to it, especially with a tube amplifier — you can get a large-scale sound with very high sensitivity.
But it's such a strange hobby. It's roughly like building a three-meter-long pterodactyl model in your bedroom.
I suspect they are more interested in the process of searching for the drivers and building the system than in the final sound of the system itself.
I had two pairs of 5GDSH drivers, one 4-ohm pair and one 8-ohm pair.
With a solid-state amplifier, they don't sound particularly impressive. They just sound like an old speaker from a television.
But if you use 15 pairs of them at once, maybe the effect is completely different.
There was a guy who wanted to buy my Accuphase Pro-6 amplifier to power his open-baffle array, whose impedance dropped below 2 ohms.
I told him he was crazy and that it would make more sense to build a system with a normal impedance rather than look for a special amplifier for such a bizarre application.
There is also a certain hype around very old drivers, such as the drivers from Simfonia speakers or some concert speakers from the 1960s.
I'm pretty far removed from that whole world.
It reminds me of the obsession some people have with old Altec drivers.
Except that with Soviet drivers, it's much cheaper — and probably sounds much worse.
As for speaker crossovers, in most cases Soviet speakers used capacitors that were not particularly prone to aging — various sealed film or metallized-paper types.
So they generally don't require servicing.
However, the quality control during production was sometimes so poor that small assembly mistakes are not uncommon.
They might have accidentally reversed the polarity at the speaker terminal, for example, or at the terminal of an individual driver.
In theory, something like a third of Soviet speakers may have been assembled with some kind of minor mistake.
So it can be worthwhile to compare them with the original schematic and check for these errors — especially if two speakers from the same pair don't sound identical, have different bass, different imaging, etc.
maxhifi
Addicted Member
I know that a small number of enthusiasts build home open-baffle arrays using large numbers of these drivers. And I suppose there is some logic to it, especially with a tube amplifier — you can get a large-scale sound with very high sensitivity.
But it's such a strange hobby. It's roughly like building a three-meter-long pterodactyl model in your bedroom.
I suspect they are more interested in the process of searching for the drivers and building the system than in the final sound of the system itself.
The thing is, the people who build those systems swear that nothing else is better. Would be interesting to actually hear one of these projects. The one (not Soviet based) array I have heard, was very loud, and sounded more or less terrible. It's hard to believe every project is similarly terrible, or there would be no point to it at all.
My pair do sound the same, but I may try flipping the phase of the tweeters and see what it does. As supplied, the 5uF capacitor is not installed, and this might mean that the phasing of the drivers is wrong. I have tried to install the 5uF capacitor, and it did not improve things. Where I think the real problem is, is making the 1.8uF capacitor so small, which raises the crossover to a point where there is not enough lower treble, but also protects the tweeter from damage, because it limits the energy reaching the tweeter. The 10AS-231 uses a different schematic for the crossover, with two 1.8uF capacitors in parallel, which allows the tweeter to go lower.
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maxhifi
Addicted Member
This guy's system is a bit confusing, but obviously a product of a lot of effort - imagine being his neighbor! It reminds me more of how someone would construct a model train, than a hifi speaker system.
Он считает себя гениальным ученым и называет это «акустическими системами будущего».
Не знаю, гений ли он на самом деле, но он похож на профессора, который изобрел машину времени на базе паровоза и обижается на троллей в комментариях.
Что ж, пожилым людям нужно хобби, чтобы поддерживать радость жизни.
maxhifi
Addicted Member
The truth is, speakers systems are very complex to design properly. It is actually a very rare DIY system which sounds excellent, and notwithstanding that his is a bit ridiculous, it looks like it gave him many meaningful hours of engagement constructing something he enjoyed.
maxhifi
Addicted Member
I was thinking about what you wrote, so I decided to bring them out and give them another try.
Since last time I used them, I am in a much smaller room, with different (better) equipment. Somehow, they sound much better now. I think they are much better matched to a smaller sized room.