Stanton 981 hzs advice?

[TrevorBarten]

I have always wanted to try this cartridge ever since becoming pretty familiar with the 681 EEE. I used a 881 for a while but honestly wasn't the biggest fan, maybe the stylus was in need of a replacement. Anyhow I recently came across one locally and picked it up along with the turntable it was mounted to. Sadly the stylus is not original. It looks like a very recent replacement judging from the condition but I doubt it was an expensive one as the brush that came mounted was useless since it wasn't long enough. I still had a brush laying around so that's been resolved. But now I am wondering if this cartridge is even worth using over contemporaries like the 881 for example without the original stylus. Are there any replacements that come close to the original and is it even worth the 200+- euros for a decent replacement? And is there any way to know what the quality of the current stylus is?

 

[Fagedabowdit]

Best you can do is to find an original Stanton stylus for an 880 or 881, or more commonly available Pickering D3000 for the XSV/3000, or a D4000 or D5000 if you can find one. There are others too—but they are so rare you probably won’t find one. If you can’t find one of those used or NOS, then find a broken one and have it retipped.

None of the aftermarket styli are built internally like the originals. They are basically moving iron designs fitted with magnets that work to a degree, some very well, but none up to original standards. The key difference is that the moving magnet models were redesigned from the moving iron designs. The iron generator in the moving iron designs is behind the pivot. The moving magnet designs feature a ring magnet relocated ahead of the pivot, as with a Grace F9.

Your aftermarket stylus there has the magnet behind the pivot, which works, but is not located properly for the best performance, as it is not centered in the magnetic flux field. Separation readings suffer, often reading very low. Still, it might sound pretty good, but not like an original.

If Jico made an SAS for this cartridge, it would be much closer to original as the SAS styli pretty much use the exact same suspension design as the Grace F9. But strangely, an SAS for this application, as perfect as it would be, has never been released.

The cantilever and diamond of an original or a quality retip will also be leagues better quality and refinement than any of the aftermarket styli as well, which further improves performance.

 

[TrevorBarten]

Best you can do is to find an original Stanton stylus for an 880 or 881, or more commonly available Pickering D3000 for the XSV/3000, or a D4000 or D5000 if you can find one. There are others too—but they are so rare you probably won’t find one. If you can’t find one of those used or NOS, then find a broken one and have it retipped.

None of the aftermarket styli are built internally like the originals. They are basically moving iron designs fitted with magnets that work to a degree, some very well, but none up to original standards. The key difference is that the moving magnet models were redesigned from the moving iron designs. The iron generator in the moving iron designs is behind the pivot. The moving magnet designs feature a ring magnet relocated ahead of the pivot, as with a Grace F9.

Your aftermarket stylus there has the magnet behind the pivot, which works, but is not located properly for the best performance, as it is not centered in the magnetic flux field. Separation readings suffer, often reading very low. Still, it might sound pretty good, but not like an original.

If Jico made an SAS for this cartridge, it would be much closer to original as the SAS styli pretty much use the exact same suspension design as the Grace F9. But strangely, an SAS for this application, as perfect as it would be, has never been released.

The cantilever and diamond of an original or a quality retip will also be leagues better quality and refinement than any of the aftermarket styli as well, which further improves performance.

But the stanton 881 is MM while the 981 is MI, wouldn't the cantilever design be different?

 

[theophile]

But the stanton 881 is MM while the 981 is MI, wouldn't the cantilever design be different?

It was a stupid suggestion.

There are no aftermarket replacement stylii for the HZS or the LZS.

 

[TrevorBarten]

It was a stupid suggestion.

There are no aftermarket replacement stylii for the HZS or the LZS.

So what is currently on the cartridge? It looks the same to me as replacement styli for the 881 or even 681. The 681 is also MI so I would assume that the current stylus is one originally produced for a 681... Also what would something like this be like?

Stylus for Stanton 981 cartridge

Stylus for Stanton 981 cartridge replacement turntable needle / stylus and styli for your record player cartridge. Buy a Stylus for Stanton 981 cartridge at LP Tunes!

lptunes.com

 

[Fagedabowdit]

But the stanton 881 is MM while the 981 is MI, wouldn't the cantilever design be different?

Do your homework. The 881 and the 981 are both moving magnet. The 981 is really a refinement on the 881. Main difference is coil inductance and marketing, I suppose.

881
Impedance: 900 ohms
Inductance: 510 mH
Output: 0.9mV

981 HZS
Impedance: 800 ohms
Inductance: 450 mH
Output: 0.7mV

Dynamic compliance is the same, weight is the same, FR is the same, tracking force shows a minor difference.

In practice: I have an 881 here that reads 875 and 873 and a 981 HZS that reads 814 and 815. Much closer than the 900 and 800 called for in the specs. A second 881 is reading 975 and 977. What the heck is that? Should be a different model number then if the 981 deserves a different model number for the difference in the coils. Third 881 here measures 844 and 846. That’s a 30 ohm difference to the 981-HZS I have. I have a 980-HZS around here somewhere too, but I’m not going to bother digging it up. I’ve made my point already.




I stand by my stupid suggestion.

Similar query from a while back for the LZS. Back then, the humble Pfanstiehl 4822-DEE was being recommended as a good cheapie, but I’m not sure that stylus will work well anymore. A lot has changed in the aftermarket stylus world since then. The current 4822-DEE could have different internals and it’s not $20 anymore.

Stanton 981 LZS Replacement Stylus? Unobtanium?

Hello All, I snagged a pretty good deal today on a non-working Mitsubishi LT-30 that I intend on fixing up. The seller told me there was a Stanton cartridge on it with no stylus, so I just assumed it was a 681 or some other variant. I brought it home and took a look at the cartridge when much...

audiokarma.org

 

[Fagedabowdit]

You may find this Groovetickler review of a similar stylus worthwhile. In fact, it’s probably the exact same stylus just in a white carrier.

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View this content on Instagram

 

[TrevorBarten]

Do your homework. The 881 and the 981 are both moving magnet. The 981 is really a refinement on the 881. Main difference is coil inductance and marketing, I suppose.

881
Impedance: 900 ohms
Inductance: 510 mH
Output: 0.9mV

981 HZS
Impedance: 800 ohms
Inductance: 450 mH
Output: 0.7mV

Dynamic compliance is the same, weight is the same, FR is the same, tracking force shows a minor difference.

In practice: I have an 881 here that reads 875 and 873 and a 981 HZS that reads 814 and 815. Much closer than the 900 and 800 called for in the specs. A second 881 is reading 975 and 977. What the heck is that? Should be a different model number then if the 981 deserves a different model number for the difference in the coils. Third 881 here measures 844 and 846. That’s a 30 ohm difference to the 981-HZS I have. I have a 980-HZS around here somewhere too, but I’m not going to bother digging it up. I’ve made my point already.


View attachment 3202920

I stand by my stupid suggestion.

Similar query from a while back for the LZS. Back then, the humble Pfanstiehl 4822-DEE was being recommended as a good cheapie, but I’m not sure that stylus will work well anymore. A lot has changed in the aftermarket stylus world since then. The current 4822-DEE could have different internals and it’s not $20 anymore.

Stanton 981 LZS Replacement Stylus? Unobtanium?

Hello All, I snagged a pretty good deal today on a non-working Mitsubishi LT-30 that I intend on fixing up. The seller told me there was a Stanton cartridge on it with no stylus, so I just assumed it was a 681 or some other variant. I brought it home and took a look at the cartridge when much...

audiokarma.org

Not sure what prompted the passive aggressive reply when I was not the person that claimed your suggestion to be stupid. Regardless thank you for the information.

 

[cafe latte]

Not sure what prompted the passive aggressive reply when I was not the person that claimed your suggestion to be stupid. Regardless thank you for the information.

Me neither.
The differences in dc resistance does not prove anything. It is likely not sample to sample differences, but changes over the time of production. Grado for example in the spec sheet did not change the numbers when they updated the cartridge. My feeling is the same thing happened with Stanton.
Whatever the reason I agree there was no reason for the passive aggressive post.
Chris

 

[Buanadha]

If we think the same stylus as the 881 would work, then the 4822-DEE from voice of music would be worth trying on it. I like that stylus quite a lot on my XSP/3003 and XSV/3000 Pickering cartridges. I did that as a moderately expensive option to try out first and so far haven't upgraded to something more expensive

Caveat, the one VOM is selling is made for the 681 (yes, it's for MI, but works on MM). Don't ask me why, but it does work and there are long discussions of such, but it may not work at some point in the future

 

[twiiii]

I used a CS 1000 Stanton Styluses for years, with out any difficulties in a 981 HZL . Of course when I accidentally damaged the last one I went searching and that when a friend sent me a Dynavector to try. I have been a Dynavector user ever since. First was a 10 X 4 which I returned. Then came a 20 X which I now keep as my spare. The 10 X 5 which I sold, then a 20 X 2 II and another 20 X 2 II.. Weeks ago I got my XX-2. Maybe I should have waited for the XX-2 A but neither myself or my dealer were aware of it coming. I will say the XX-2 is by far the best cartridge I have ever owned. Yes, it is a LO Output MC and the others were all high, but with my MP 100 phono pre-amp there is no sign of noise and its performance is glorious.

Its not brighter or heavier, it is just more detailed and revealing with more extended bass. No wonder the XX-2 receives great reviews. No matter how good the 881 and 981 were with OEM Styluses they never matched up against previous Ortofons sonically. The MC Ortofons just didn't track that well and why I moved to V-15's and back to Stantons. But Dynavector is clealy a much better choice if you have got the coin. Prices have really gone way up since I got my 20 X many years ago.

When I discovered how good Dynavectors were is when I decided it was worth collecting LP's again. I have yet to regret that decision. .

 

[Fagedabowdit]

What stunningly arrogant responses.

I get called passive aggressive, stupid, and then invited into a pissing contest about the irrelevant idea about why coils are off spec for giving a thorough, complete, helpful and and informative reply. Truly amazing. Well, that’s the last question I waste my good time answering.

Why the coils are off spec is irrelevant. I brought it up just to show how close an 881 can be to a 981 since my suggestion to use a stylus for a close model was called stupid. How hard is that to figure out?

Quite a bunch here.

Do your own homework, then.

 

[dennis h]

Stanton-Pickering Equivalents

I was able to find the published specifications for the Stanton and Pickering high-end cartridges from product brochures and testing results. From the inductance and resistance figures of each model, I matched each Pickering model with the Stanton equivalent. Even though all the styli will...

audiokarma.org

Read this thread for suggestions

 

[theophile]

What stunningly arrogant responses.

I get called passive aggressive, stupid, and then invited into a pissing contest about the irrelevant idea about why coils are off spec for giving a thorough, complete, helpful and and informative reply. Truly amazing. Well, that’s the last question I waste my good time answering.

Why the coils are off spec is irrelevant. I brought it up just to show how close an 881 can be to a 981 since my suggestion to use a stylus for a close model was called stupid. How hard is that to figure out?

Quite a bunch here.

Do your own homework, then.

Still doesn't change the fact that putting a 881 replacement stylus in a 981, is a stupid idea.

 

[cafe latte]

What stunningly arrogant responses.

I get called passive aggressive, stupid, and then invited into a pissing contest about the irrelevant idea about why coils are off spec for giving a thorough, complete, helpful and and informative reply. Truly amazing. Well, that’s the last question I waste my good time answering.

Why the coils are off spec is irrelevant. I brought it up just to show how close an 881 can be to a 981 since my suggestion to use a stylus for a close model was called stupid. How hard is that to figure out?

Quite a bunch here.

Do your own homework, then.

Your rude responses wont go down well here, this sort of post is likely to get you banned very quickly.
You posting the chart was informative, but it would be far better recieved without the passive aggressive comments, like "Do your homework" and "I have made my point already" is not going to win you many friends.
Kind regards
Chris

 

[Fagedabowdit]

Your rude responses wont go down well here, this sort of post is likely to get you banned very quickly.
You posting the chart was informative, but it would be far better recieved without the passive aggressive comments, like "Do your homework" and "I have made my point already" is not going to win you many friends.
Kind regards
Chris

Your comments are the rudest I’ve ever read on AK. If you haven’t been banned, I don’t think I need to worry about it and neither does Theophile, for that matter. But don’t worry. The rudeness I’ve met up with here is enough to keep me away.

Hasta!

Still doesn't change the fact that putting a 881 replacement stylus in a 981, is a stupid idea.

Exactly why, though? I’ve made my case. What’s yours? It’s a far less dumb idea than using any of the aftermarket styli. We are talking very little differences in coils at all. So why is it a stupid suggestion in your opinion? Same compliance. Same frequency response. In the same cartridge, very likely the same voltage output. One may be a little less linear than the other, but with coils that close, probably not. The Stanton expert Richard Steinfeld felt the difference between the 881 and 981 was more bark than bite as well.

I’d love to hear your argument. You know what? Nevermind.

It’s really not worth the bother.

 

[cafe latte]

Your comments are the rudest I’ve ever read on AK. If you haven’t been banned, I don’t think I need to worry about it and neither does Theophile, for that matter. But don’t worry. The rudeness I’ve met up with here is enough to keep me away.

Hasta!


Exactly why, though? I’ve made my case. What’s yours? It’s a far less dumb idea than using any of the aftermarket styli. We are talking very little differences in coils at all. So why is it a stupid suggestion in your opinion? Same compliance. Same frequency response. In the same cartridge, very likely the same voltage output. One may be a little less linear than the other, but with coils that close, probably not. The Stanton expert Richard Steinfeld felt the difference between the 881 and 981 was more bark than bite as well.

I’d love to hear your argument. You know what? Nevermind.

It’s really not worth the bother.

You have made less than 50 posts and you are telling people to "Do their homework" I struggle to see how you cant see that is rude.
My comments are not rude, I am just pointing out that we dont speak to each other in this way here on AK, if you find this offensive, then dont do it and people wont pull you up on it. Threads are not about winning or getting one up on someone, it is supposed to be helpful polite debate. The issue I and others had was the passive aggressive nature of your post. You posted useful information but spoiled it with the rest of your post. I am sure you have a lot to contribute, just stop trying to "win" threads.
Kind regards
Chris

 

[Fagedabowdit]

You have made less than 50 posts and you are telling people to "Do their homework" I struggle to see how you cant see that is rude.
My comments are not rude, I am just pointing out that we dont speak to each other in this way here on AK, if you find this offensive, then dont do it and people wont pull you up on it. Threads are not about winning or getting one up on someone, it is supposed to be helpful polite debate. The issue I and others had was the passive aggressive nature of your post. You posted useful information but spoiled it with the rest of your post. I am sure you have a lot to contribute, just stop trying to "win" threads.
Kind regards
Chris

Right. You struggle with a lot, apparently, like calling me out for rudeness like you’re the etiquette cops and totally ignore the “stupid suggestion,” comment and then tell me that this place isn’t rude.

OK.

As for the rest of what you described, that’s exactly your approach, not mine, exemplified in your pointless speculation of a production change instead of sample to sample variation. Or your follow up comment to my comments in the Micro-Acoustics thread that adds nothing. That’s not about winning or getting one up on someone? Your comments like those add nothing factual and only your opinion which is usually off the mark, so why else to you post so often?

All you are doing is illustrating why I’ve already got DMs from strangers who haven’t even posted in these threads to tell me how terrible AK forums are now, and that you do this to everyone.

Just wasting my time responding, anyway, to your baseless accusations. But you call it “trying to win.” Amazing.

I’m guessing you’re reporting this comment to the mods so that I’ll get banned. But if you read closely, I’m not saying anything that others aren’t observing and complaining to each other about daily in the DM, which must also be part of life here, since it’s already happening to me after a couple posts. I’m guessing they complain privately to each other in DMs rather than confront your rudeness in the forums because they are afraid you’ll report them and then get banned.

Hey mods, go ahead and delete my account. I would if I could. Done wasting my time here

Get the last word in now, though, and “win!”

 

[spicer]

Right. You struggle with a lot, apparently, like calling me out for rudeness like you’re the etiquette cops and totally ignore the “stupid suggestion,” comment and then tell me that this place isn’t rude.

OK.

As for the rest of what you described, that’s exactly your approach, not mine, exemplified in your pointless speculation of a production change instead of sample to sample variation. Or your follow up comment to my comments in the Micro-Acoustics thread that adds nothing. That’s not about winning or getting one up on someone? Your comments like those add nothing factual and only your opinion which is usually off the mark, so why else to you post so often?

All you are doing is illustrating why I’ve already got DMs from strangers who haven’t even posted in these threads to tell me how terrible AK forums are now, and that you do this to everyone.

Just wasting my time responding, anyway, to your baseless accusations. But you call it “trying to win.” Amazing.

I’m guessing you’re reporting this comment to the mods so that I’ll get banned. But if you read closely, I’m not saying anything that others aren’t observing and complaining to each other about daily in the DM, which must also be part of life here, since it’s already happening to me after a couple posts. I’m guessing they complain privately to each other in DMs rather than confront your rudeness in the forums because they are afraid you’ll report them and then get banned.

Get the last word in now and “win!”

Hey mods, go ahead and delete my account. I would if I could. Done wasting my time here.

That's quite the avatar you have. Gets right to the point. No offense intended but it is rather amusing.

 

[Fagedabowdit]

That's quite the avatar you have. Gets right to the point. No offense intended but it is rather amusing.

I guess I am a pain in the ass because a comment I spent a lot of time on and backed with data to help someone was welcomed with “stupid suggestion.” The person I wrote it for got it all wrong: disappointing. And then the peanut gallery comes in to tell me that I’m the rude one since I said “do your homework.” Incredible. And then my DMs fill up telling me that this is how it is now and it sucks and don’t bother posting anything unless you want to get attacked, which is quite illuminating.

Amazing place.