Starting to mod KLF-20 cabinet & crossover

[LAB3]

I guess one of my last big questions would be this - have I changed the tuning of the cabinet?

• Does the "tuning" only affect the low frequencies?
• What's the best way to tune a speaker like this?
• Do I need an expensive frequency analyzer? Or can I use my phone with that Audio Tools App?

Have you played the KLF with your Marantz 2270? It has 3 tone knobs one for each separate driver types in the cabinet. Adjust each one until you like the "Balanced" sound. Reduce the gain on the mids and tweeter and see what it sounds like. I had a Marantz 2285B many years ago and loved it on my Heresy II.YMMV on the KLF-20. My Yamaha A-1000 Class A Integrated Amp I use on my Cornwalls for analog has tone controls that I use on about every different vintage LP I clean and play. I have spent hundreds of hours and my friends house with his 4 KLF-20/C7 SVS sub and plays his stereo music thru a Bluray player and his Yamaha AVR and it sounds Great. ( I know a terrible thing to do ) HT even better after his runs the room correction program(YAPO) and then a hand held sound meter and manual adjusts the AVR Eq. for his room and his hearing. I Can make either of my Klipsch speakers sound so Harsh and Bright with the mid and tweeter tone controls maxed out that they will bore a hole in your head in this small room. Start out with all three tone controls set flat or at 1/2 of the rotation and give it listen.
And adjust for the room and you. Enjoy those KLF-20, they are great speakers.

 

[moray james]

I guess one of my last big questions would be this - have I changed the tuning of the cabinet?

• Does the "tuning" only affect the low frequencies?
• What's the best way to tune a speaker like this?
• Do I need an expensive frequency analyzer? Or can I use my phone with that Audio Tools App?

yes changing the vent tuning impacts only the low frequency resonance of the system. That said adjusting the bass will shift the overall balance of the speaker.
For vent tuning or passive for that matter I use the same method. The simple approach in the case of the KLF20 to add some length to the vent two - three inch should help. If you want to tune the speaker then I use a test tome which ie about 3 Hz lower than the given 3db down point of the speaker which is 34 Hz in the case of the KLF20 so I would use 31 Hz. as he tuning frequency. Play the 31 Ha test tone and adjust the cent length for minimum woofer cone motion. With a passive loaded speaker adjust the weight added to the passive for minimum woofer motion. That's it. Good luck and keep us posted with your results. Beast regard Moray James.

 

[Dingman]

the Ti mids do sound better. But im not sure they are any less bright than the phenolics.
i was so eager to hear your impressions of the crites xover in hopes that it would result in a slightly smoother sounding speaker.

I've read people say their klf's sound a little recessed in the mids. Not mine. Especially the vocals to upper midrange frequencies.

update us on your impressions after you've burned in those new xovers.

Ya, I'm around 36 hours of burn in now, I did try facing the speakers at each other and covering with blankets so I could keep a decent level at night.

LOL, didn't work, my roomie couldn't take it and turned it off in the middle of the night. Which was OK.

But anyway, I'm with you~ recessed in the mids? Not mine. I've got more than a few Klipsch Heritage speakers and these are now the brightest. I think the next up for bright would be the KP-201's - but they are also shy on bass. The KLF's are certainly not shy on bass at this point.
Yesteray, I put on some INXS, which IMO has a prominent kick drum style. The KLF-20's did a great job of hammering out that drum quickly. And it really hammered (I found a rattling door in my re-purposed media cabinet).

I have noticed that they have mellowed in the last day - thank god.

 

[Dingman]

Haven't pulled the 2270 down for this yet, but you are right, that's next on the list.

And in fact, you hit the nail on the head here - I think the brightness of Klipsch can be offset and in fact utilized with an older Marantz receiver. There's no doubt those silver-faced Marantz have their own warm sound. I'm really excited to bring it down off the shelf and try it out.
I have no problem using the tone controls when hitting my final config, but so far, it's been the "direct" mode that I usually use in this system.

Currently, as you know, I'm driving these with a Marantz SR-4023 (fed with a decent SACD). The local audio shop of course is biased, but they have had a 4023 near the front of their display, hooked to a variety of speakers for over a year now - it sounds good enough and price low enough for people to either buy or move deeper into the store, they say.

Next up, maybe some Devo with their tight drum. Already got all the floyd SACD's stacked and ready for the right listening time.

If I had a friend with a 4 way+ setup like you, I'd spend hundreds of hours there too! I bet it sounds great, like you say, it's set up properly too. Nice.
I'll also say - downstairs, in my basement is the man-cave. Threw in some KP-201's as mains with a $300 Klipsch sub, and hooked to a $300 Onkyo cheapie HT unit. I am continually impressed with how good it sounds for stereo music. Obviously part of it is the room, but I can't believe how good that damn Onkyo sounds. None of my other systems sound as good. Damn room. Pissed me off. LOL.

Have you played the KLF with your Marantz 2270? It has 3 tone knobs one for each separate driver types in the cabinet. Adjust each one until you like the "Balanced" sound. Reduce the gain on the mids and tweeter and see what it sounds like. I had a Marantz 2285B many years ago and loved it on my Heresy II.YMMV on the KLF-20. My Yamaha A-1000 Class A Integrated Amp I use on my Cornwalls for analog has tone controls that I use on about every different vintage LP I clean and play. I have spent hundreds of hours and my friends house with his 4 KLF-20/C7 SVS sub and plays his stereo music thru a Bluray player and his Yamaha AVR and it sounds Great. ( I know a terrible thing to do ) HT even better after his runs the room correction program(YAPO) and then a hand held sound meter and manual adjusts the AVR Eq. for his room and his hearing. I Can make either of my Klipsch speakers sound so Harsh and Bright with the mid and tweeter tone controls maxed out that they will bore a hole in your head in this small room. Start out with all three tone controls set flat or at 1/2 of the rotation and give it listen.
And adjust for the room and you. Enjoy those KLF-20, they are great speakers.

 

[Dingman]

Moray, thanks.
I'll get the test tones set up and do what you describe.

I think my only question is:

How do you determine "minimum movement"? Um, I've watched woofers occasinally and I'm not sure how to tell. Maybe create different sets of "rulers" using paper?
I can envision using paper (obviously perpendicular to the axis of the speaker) for this.

Um, nevermind, I think I answered my own question.

yes changing the vent tuning impacts only the low frequency resonance of the system. That said adjusting the bass will shift the overall balance of the speaker.
For vent tuning or passive for that matter I use the same method. The simple approach in the case of the KLF20 to add some length to the vent two - three inch should help. If you want to tune the speaker then I use a test tome which ie about 3 Hz lower than the given 3db down point of the speaker which is 34 Hz in the case of the KLF20 so I would use 31 Hz. as he tuning frequency. Play the 31 Ha test tone and adjust the cent length for minimum woofer cone motion. With a passive loaded speaker adjust the weight added to the passive for minimum woofer motion. That's it. Good luck and keep us posted with your results. Beast regard Moray James.

 

[nrap]

i've noticed with mine, on nicely recorded stuff, that isn't already hot in the upper mids, they sound great. tight full bass with the dynamics were used to. It's just not as flexible a speaker as my forte's or chorus in my room.
I think the best way to describe it is peaky.
once i get my fisher 800B refurbed maybe i'll change my mind

 

[moray james]

have yo tried them with diffraction balls in the horn lens? Best regards Moray James.

 

[nrap]

No. I need to. Which size ping pong ball is it again?
And will they fit in the klf horn?

 

[LAB3]

No. I need to. Which size ping pong ball is it again?
And will they fit in the klf horn?

They work, and handy if playing in "Direct" mode on a SS amp... my friend has 4 taped/string in front of the throat. I think they are 38MM not the 40MM....... my IIRC is not to good this week so PM moray or I bet he will correct me if I have it incorrect.

 

[moray james]

there are two sizes

No. I need to. Which size ping pong ball is it again?
And will they fit in the klf horn?

official are 40 mm that's what you use in the mid horn and 38 mm which is the non official size that what you use in the tweeter. I cut a length of electrical tape about 1/4" wide and wrap that around the seam of the ball to provide just enough compression to provide a friction fir so the ball stays in place in the tweeter and in K700/701 horns and in the K703 I simply hang the ball in position with about a 3/8" gap (horizontal) on either side of the ball to the horn body. Hope that help. Best regards Moray James.

 

[LAB3]

official are 40 mm that's what you use in the mid horn and 38 mm which is the non official size that what you use in the tweeter. I cut a length of electrical tape about 1/4" wide and wrap that around the seam of the ball to provide just enough compression to provide a friction fir so the ball stays in place in the tweeter and in K700/701 horns and in the K703 I simply hang the ball in position with about a 3/8" gap (horizontal) on either side of the ball to the horn body. Hope that help. Best regards Moray James.

:thmbsp:

 

[nrap]

They work, and handy if playing in "Direct" mode on a SS amp... my friend has 4 taped/string in front of the throat. I think they are 38MM not the 40MM....... my IIRC is not to good this week so PM moray or I bet he will correct me if I have it incorrect.

Ill give it a shot. I use a yamaha a s500 with my klipsch usually. It's a crisp clean sounding amp. I love it, but def can sound hot on some horns. Plus I feel like its even cleaner sounding in pure direct.

Thanks moray. Ill have to head to the sporting goods store this weekend

 

[moray james]

wally mart will likely have both sizes in stock though you may have to look in toys to find the smaller version for the tweeter. good luck and best regards Moray James.

 

[LAB3]

Ill give it a shot. I use a yamaha a s500 with my klipsch usually. It's a crisp clean sounding amp. I love it, but def can sound hot on some horns. Plus I feel like its even cleaner sounding in pure direct.

Thanks moray. Ill have to head to the sporting goods store this weekend

If you have a decent sub hook it up with them, a bit more bass tones down the mids. When going "Straight" my Yamaha A-1000 has the "Direct or Straight" mode (no tone controls) I use and if a song sounds too bright on my Cornwalls I turn on the sub with the gain low for a bit of help. Been doing this with my Heresy II with a sub and Direct . I have used my Yamaha HD AVR RX-V1900 (2009 model) for stereo for my Cornwalls and it sounded darn good. Yamaha amps seem to sound good on Cornwalls and Heresy II. I have a 2004 Yamaha RX-V2400 7.1 AVR DD 5.1 (no HDMI)I now have in the bedroom with the Heresy II as fronts for HT in there now. Lots of options to try.

 

[Dingman]

I'm going to create a new thread summarizing the mods and my final impressions.

Unfortunately, I can't do before\after of the KLF-20's and so my comparisons will be against the nearly identically modded ChorusII's.

My initial impressions are that the two speakers, in my space and system, are very similar. The KLF's were quite hot in the beginning but are now adjusting to my ears. :thmbsp:

 

[LAB3]

I'm going to create a new thread summarizing the mods and my final impressions.

Unfortunately, I can't do before\after of the KLF-20's and so my comparisons will be against the nearly identically modded ChorusII's.

My initial impressions are that the two speakers, in my space and system, are very similar. The KLF's were quite hot in the beginning but are now adjusting to my ears. :thmbsp:

I hope you try the vintage Marantz on both of them for 2 channel music with and without a sub. My sub helped the Heresy II on Direct mode with no tone controls. The extra bit of LFE blends the hot sounding mid horn. I like a KLF-20 with a sub, great sound for not a huge amount of money spent.

 

[Dingman]

testing picture attachment...

 

[LAB3]

testing picture attachment...

Try again pic.

EDIT pic restored

 

[Dingman]

Hmmm, I wanted to create a new thread to show how I did my mods, in a summary\how to fashion.

But AudioKarma won't let me attach photos again. Not sure how to get them in a new thread, as an attachment that creates the thumbnails.

 

[nrap]

If you have a decent sub hook it up with them, a bit more bass tones down the mids. When going "Straight" my Yamaha A-1000 has the "Direct or Straight" mode (no tone controls) I use and if a song sounds too bright on my Cornwalls I turn on the sub with the gain low for a bit of help. Been doing this with my Heresy II with a sub and Direct . I have used my Yamaha HD AVR RX-V1900 (2009 model) for stereo for my Cornwalls and it sounded darn good. Yamaha amps seem to sound good on Cornwalls and Heresy II. I have a 2004 Yamaha RX-V2400 7.1 AVR DD 5.1 (no HDMI)I now have in the bedroom with the Heresy II as fronts for HT in there now. Lots of options to try.

last night after a couple drinks and things i played around with the tone controls. i found what i wanted with the bass to 1 oclock and the treble to 1130. With some stuff i still just punch the "pure direct" button because its already recorded and mastered perfectly.

i run a cheapy dayton 10 inch sub with my 30's. granted i have it crossed over at about 60 hz and gained down pretty low. really just there to pick up sub 35 hz frequencies.

i had been eyeballing the SVS sealed 12 inch sub they sell for 500$ ever since i heard it. That is a fantastic sub for the money. But im really not sure i need it now.
with as much computer audio as i use, i think it be better spent upgrading my dac.

dingman, i use imageshack or photobucket to upload sometimes, though it usually takes an attempt or two to get the right code from their websites.
I'd love to see a mod thread. i think you did some fantastic work. i need to damp my horns.
how much dynamat did you have to buy? last time i looked at amazon i saw these rolls for 100+ dollars. do i need that much???

happy first day of fall.
best season of the year!