markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
With a VPI 16.5, and AIVS Fluids, I have never found a reason to use anything more, why do you? If you used the AIVS fluids, and rinses properly, you'd never need the steam, ever.
Steam cleaner
- Thread starter guitarman50
- Start date
With a VPI 16.5, and AIVS Fluids, I have never found a reason to use anything more, why do you? If you used the AIVS fluids, and rinses properly, you'd never need the steam, ever.
Have you ever tried a Steam Cleaner? An ultrasonic cleaner? If you haven't then how can you make statement above, I have owned a VPI 16.5 and AIVS fluids and I can say that neither of them are still in my possesion due to lack of performance.
guitarman50
Super Member
I honestly can't understand how you came to the conclusion that the VPI 16.5 didn't clean good enough. I have the VPI 16.5 and use the Doctor Disck quickwash. I've cleaned LP's that were filthy and noisy and they were silent in mint shape afterwards. Any LP's that were still noisy afterwards had problems that no amount of cleaning would fix. How clean is clean. I honestly think that some around here believe these grooves are deeper and more mysterious then they actually are. I believe there are individuals that get there LP's just as clean as anything out there in their sink and with DIY vacuum cleaners. I chose a vPI simply out of convenience.
If you are happy with your system then that is awesome, I had higher expectations that were not met by the VPI and the "designer fluids". One thing about the VPI I hated was the fact once I cleaned a side I had to place it back on the cork mat, one of the reasons I love the Nitty Gritty 2.5FI
My experience has been different. Steam cleaning has made some of my flea market find LPs noticeably quieter.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Nope, never have, and not to be rude, it's nothing personal towards you, but I never will.
And the reason why? It's because I'm getting the desired results I wish to achieve, without the necessity, and risk of using hot water-steam.
I believe my system to be of high enough quality, and resolution to quickly recognize these facts.
I've seen-read other examples, where there were true believers of steam, until they heard what products like AIVS can do, when properly used.
One, is a fella named Dan_Ed over on audiogon. An adamant steam user, until he seen the light, Go over, and ask him if he still uses steam?
Mark
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
And for the reasons you like, was one of the main reasons I shunned the Nitty Gritty Type Machines. The cork mat issue is easily solveable, with a Neoprene Rubber Mat. Easy to clean, and keep clean in between sides, a simple wipe, and I'm good to go. Mark
guitarman50
Super Member
This is something I easily remedy by using a poly inner sleeve that I have cut in half and put a hole in the middle. I used it to place the LP on to clean the first side. I flip it over then the clean side is the only thing that touches the cork mat. You couldn't figure something like that out?
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
I'm getting truly impeccable results with AIVS's new #15 Pre-Cleaner, and lately, I've been using it on every record that gets on my VPI 16.5, whether it's a brand new virgin vinyl re-issue, or a $1 cheapie from the thrifts.
I generally prefer original copies on most LPs if I can find them. I of course don't buy trashed LPs, and at least try to use a discerning eye when selecting-buying used LPs.
That's of course no guarantee, and I do clearly understand, there's no such thing as a miracle product that can remove deep scratches, or other types of previous user abuse-neglect. And the causes of neglect can be as numerous as the people who previously owned them.
Mark
Every method has its evangelists, I don't feel the need to ask anyone how they feel about steam cleaning, I love my steam cleaning and ultrasonic.
I have collectors from all over the world send me records to record and almost all of them comment on how when they get returned how much cleaner they are than when they left....quite a few VPI 16.5 owners in that group
I have collectors from all over the world send me records to record and almost all of them comment on how when they get returned how much cleaner they are than when they left....quite a few VPI 16.5 owners in that group
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Every method has its evangelists, I don't feel the need to ask anyone how they feel about steam cleaning, I love my steam cleaning and ultrasonic.
I have collectors from all over the world send me records to record and almost all of them comment on how when they get returned how much cleaner they are than when they left....quite a few VPI 16.5 owners in that group
I won't fight-argue with what you say.
But remember, a lot of people mistakenly believe the RCM cleans, when it does not do any cleaning at all per se.
If the fluids cannot loosen the found-various types of contaminants on the record, and in the groove, suspend those contaminants, do so without causing any serious harm, and then a rinse water removing all further traces of those cleaners, and contaminants, then it won't really matter if you're using a VPI, Loricraft, Clearaudio Double Matrix, Keith Monks, etc etc machine.
With the proper cleaners, I can believe when a person says that his DIY RCM machine does every bit as good as a VPI, or other type of machine that uses a wand type vacuum. Because all the bar vacuum in the world may not remove them properly-fully if the cleaners are not correctly designed, nor properly used.
Agressive methods may give a certain desired result, yet cause some other undesireable results.
For instance, another thread, with a user mentioning the use of Labtone Glass Cleaner on his records. Well OK, lets's look at the MSDS of the product.
From what I recall, the product contains an acid, as well as sodium. Well, I can remember from Beer drinking days, that the ole beer hands used to say to never clean your favorite beer glass with soaps-detergents, to sprinkle plain old table salt in the glass, swish, and rinse with clean water.
I'd agree that for glass, sodium is probably a very efficient cleaner, and there's no products in it, like food grade silicone, which many dishwashing detergents are claimed to have. Is it good for your records though?
Or is acids, or alkalis, even in dilute form?
I seen the effects of steam, or I should say hot water cause to a record, warping it. Firstly, I wouldn't wish to place those sort of stresses on a record by hand, why would I wish to with heat?
Steam-hot water, without some other ingredients is said to only sprseadome the contaminants over a record, and not truly detach them well enough for removal with a vacuum system. They'll have a tendency to re-attach themselves very quickly again in the groove.
I'd rather have a product which will loosen the contaminants, float them into a liquid suspension, which is then much easier to then remove with the vacuum process.
One important aspect of using cleaners, is giving them the needed time to do their job. Thirty seconds, or a minute may not be enough time to fully loosen, and act upon those contaminants. Mark