Stereophile quotation

[johnnm]

I picked up the December issue of Stereophile the other day to read on my flight. For those who aren't familiar with Stereophile, they review high end audio equipment. I thought one of the letters to the editor was worth sharing, since it nearly perfectly summed up my opinion of super-high-end audio. Slightly edited is the letter as it appeared:

"... The price is the product. Buyers want bragging rights. They want to be the first and only one on their block to have whichever framistan.

There are speakers for $180,000. Flea-power tube amps for $100,000. Many CD players over $10,000. A USB DAC for $3500 ($6500 with upgrades)! Even Klipsch has fallen into the trap with speakers for $20,000. How many really expensive systems have you heard that produce only mediocre sound?

Does it not seem that some manufacturers calculate what they think their time is worth, divide that number by the low-three-digit number of items to be sold, and that is how they compute the markup to wholesale from the actual cost of the item delivered to the retail store? By carefully making their item incomparable (literally!) they hope to avoid competition.

...

I understand the economics of this: The first atomic bomb costs $2 billion. After a while, each additional one costs $100k. New technology is always expensive to develop. But making a deliberately limited number of what are essentially proof-of-concept devices, then moving on to the next "novelty," is not improving the quality of music reproduction for our neighbors. Nor do I want to pay such a large percentage of the cost of each new way to make eletricity into sound, or small signals into large, or sound into digits, or sound into shapes to be traced with diamonds...."

After flipping through the magazine, this letter really stood out to me. It seems like there's high-end audio products priced up to maybe $5,000, and then there's a whole new level of ridiculousness, going from $5,000 and upwards. This issue in particular had lists of the "Top Products of 2009". I didn't count, but I'd wager half of the components listed as winners or runner-ups were over $10,000.

My point in posting this was because the bold parts above really clicked for me, and I thought maybe they would for some of you too. No longer do I drool over those $100,000 speakers. (Actually, I still do. So pretty!) But even if I had all the money I could ask for, I would not purchase one of these extremely priced products.

 

[JohnVF]

Take a look at this picture and it's description:

http://www.magico.net/?d=03_Products/04_M_5/4.html

I attached it to another thread but I think it might apply here. Good luck getting that kind of build quality for less than the price of a Mercedes. Very expensive material, tooling, research, man hours for comparatively few products sold.

I can't afford them, but I'm glad that technology is moving forward and there are a lot of wealthy people in this world who can buy them, or they wouldn't be made. I personally could care less about what anybody spends there money on. I also think Stereophile is a much more balanced publication than that letter points it out to be. I've learned a lot by reading it, and the similar Absolute Sound.

 

[DENNYDOG]

Take a look at this picture and it's description:

http://www.magico.net/?d=03_Products/04_M_5/4.html

I attached it to another thread but I think it might apply here. Good luck getting that kind of build quality for less than the price of a Mercedes. Very expensive material, tooling, research, man hours for comparatively few products sold.

I can't afford them, but I'm glad that technology is moving forward and there are a lot of wealthy people in this world who can buy them, or they wouldn't be made. I personally could care less about what anybody spends there money on. I also think Stereophile is a much more balanced publication than that letter points it out to be. I've learned a lot by reading it, and the similar Absolute Sound.

I agree. Quality like that doesn't come cheap. I loved the interview they had a couple years ago with the guy who started Magico speakers. If I had the money I sure as hell would buy a set of their speakers.

 

[zombie1210]

I picked up the December issue of Stereophile the other day to read on my flight. For those who aren't familiar with Stereophile, they review high end audio equipment. I thought one of the letters to the editor was worth sharing, since it nearly perfectly summed up my opinion of super-high-end audio. Slightly edited is the letter as it appeared:


After flipping through the magazine, this letter really stood out to me. It seems like there's high-end audio products priced up to maybe $5,000, and then there's a whole new level of ridiculousness, going from $5,000 and upwards. This issue in particular had lists of the "Top Products of 2009". I didn't count, but I'd wager half of the components listed as winners or runner-ups were over $10,000.

My point in posting this was because the bold parts above really clicked for me, and I thought maybe they would for some of you too. No longer do I drool over those $100,000 speakers. (Actually, I still do. So pretty!) But even if I had all the money I could ask for, I would not purchase one of these extremely priced products.

:thmbsp:

 

[JoeESP9]

This is some more reverse snobbery? There is an awful lot of that here. I don't know which is worse, the your gear didn't cost enough bunch or, the no gear is worth that much bunch.

Why is it such a big deal what someone else spends or doesn't spend on their gear?

I don't hear people complaining about the cost of a Maybach, Porsche, Lamborghini or Ferrari by comparing the cost with a Ford Focus

I don't hear people complaining about the cost of a Nikon or a Hasselblad by comparing the cost with a disposable.

Expensive watches should be in the same catagory. I never hear people complaining about the cost of a Rolex or Patek Phillippe compared to a Timex.

The complaints about high prices for high end gear are very prevalent here. Why all the sour grapes? Why do so many posters here have a bug up their butt's about what others can and do spend on audio gear? Too many people here are what we in the inner city call "haters".

 

[westend]

Yikes, carbon nano-tube cones! Call me old fashioned, I'll take the old horn system: http://www.magico.net/?d=03_Products/06_Ultimate_II

 

[Sam Cogley]

Take a look at this picture and it's description:

http://www.magico.net/?d=03_Products/04_M_5/4.html

I attached it to another thread but I think it might apply here. Good luck getting that kind of build quality for less than the price of a Mercedes. Very expensive material, tooling, research, man hours for comparatively few products sold.

I can't afford them, but I'm glad that technology is moving forward and there are a lot of wealthy people in this world who can buy them, or they wouldn't be made. I personally could care less about what anybody spends there money on. I also think Stereophile is a much more balanced publication than that letter points it out to be. I've learned a lot by reading it, and the similar Absolute Sound.

Of course, that raises a question - is all of that super-high-precision machining really necessary, or is it just there for the joint purposes of looking good and bragging rights? The automotive world is full of parts (often machined from billets of aluminum) that look wonderful but offer no performance benefit (and sometimes don't perform as well) as their more mundane counterparts. Yes, looking pretty can be a purpose into it's own right, but personally I'm more concerned with function in most instances.

 

[x_25]

It is not hard to get a pair of speakers to legitimately cost more than $10k. The guy I work with built his speakers and they cost $1.1K. Now, factor in you can get much better drivers and cabs, the research and development, any other overhead plus proffet and you get to $10K really fast. :yes:

 

[jhoyt]

My dad was an early adopter of many audio/video technologies. But even though the things he bought were expensive, they became mass-market in due time. Being an "early adopter" sounds far different than being a consumer of the uber-priced equipment. Different ballgame. I don't think the companies that make $100,000 amplifiers are going to be selling the same thing, five years later, for $500.

Being an "early adopter" is a double-edged sword. You get to play with some incredible equipment, but also take a pretty big risk that it will be a dud. "Minidisc", anyone? So, my hat's off to those who take the plunge early, and ease the way for the rest of us. For those who chase the uber-pricetags, more power to ya; but you're not doing anything beneficial for the rest of us.

(Not a criticism, just a compare/contrast observation.)

 

[zombie1210]

That's why Ferrari doesn't use stamped steel on their engines or pretty much anything else. The people that buy the cars want the best and are willing to pay for it.

Aw jeebuz......the FERRARI ANAOLOGY!!!!!!


:thumbsdn:

 

[Urizen]

This is some more reverse snobbery?

Yes. It's a horse that has been whipped to death, ad nauseum.

 

[kneeOhFight]

Aw jeebuz......the FERRARI ANAOLOGY!!!!!!


:thumbsdn:

clearly, you've not been exposed to Ferrari...was an excellent analogy, anyone would be hard pressed to state a better one...:thmbsp:

 

[zombie1210]

It was the same tired old ANALogy.

Ho hum

All the Ferrari drivers look down their noses at the chevy drivers, and the Chevy drivers think the Ferrari drivers are snobs....

DID I say HO HUM????

what model Ferrari do you drive?

 

[thedelihaus]

I wonder- where does the cash from the sale of such uber-pricey stereo gear go?

Does it go back into the company? Allow them to develop gear affordable to less wealthy people? The middle class? The working class?


I wonder if products further down the food chain from the extremely priced gear offsets final cost to the general buyng public of more humble means?

Do the large profits get funneled back into research and development to improve products for me, Joe Shmoe and his neighbor?


Are some of these products overkill? Hell yes. But I don't sweat what someone else is buying, as long as they aren't doing it with their hands in my pockets.


I'm finding zen and happiness in the lower income bracket. Good will and fortune to those who find it in a healthier price bracket.

If someone wants to buy something for bragging rights that's their perogative. It's done all the time- Gucci bags, manahalo blahnik shoes, Ecco sweatshirts.

It's not exclusive to audio.

 

[jimfet]

More high end bashing. I don't mind saying I don't like it. I can't afford it. But in most cases I can hear the difference.

 

[devnull]

For those who aren't familiar with Stereophile, they review high end audio equipment.

Soooooo...he buys a magazine that reviews high end audio equipment, then writes them to bitch about it?

They're getting the last laugh.

John

 

[thedelihaus]

Hey- by thexway, not knocking anyone's points here- most are valid, both sides of the issue.


However I do have a solution- pass on Stereophile, and download an issue of Affordable Audio or a back issue of The Audio Critic.

I enjoyed reading Automobile magazine and Car and Driver- fun articles on hand carved bubinga wood dashes for Bugattis and the like, but ultimately got more out of Car Craft and Hot Rod, as these were the magazines that had more practical information and more relevant stories.


Yeah, I know- another car anology....


Anyhoo, I pick ip Absolute Sound as I find the price brackets are more evenly distributed- prices attuned to my wallet, as well as for the extremely budget minded, and all types of higher price brackets, each north of what I can afford.

I find Absolute Sound typically covers all with tact.

 

[JohnVF]

Hey- by thexway, not knocking anyone's points here- most are valid, both sides of the issue.


However I do have a solution- pass on Stereophile, and download an issue of Affordable Audio or a back issue of The Audio Critic.

I enjoyed reading Automobile magazine and Car and Driver- fun articles on hand carved bubinga wood dashes for Bugattis and the like, but ultimately got more out of Car Craft and Hot Rod, as these were the magazines that had more practical information and more relevant stories.


Yeah, I know- another car anology....


Anyhoo, I pick ip Absolute Sound as I find the price brackets are more evenly distributed- prices attuned to my wallet, as well as for the extremely budget minded, and all types of higher price brackets, each north of what I can afford.

I find Absolute Sound typically covers all with tact.

The British magazines Hi Fi News and Hi Fi+ (somehow associated with Absolute Sound) also review a lot of more accessible gear. Sometimes Borders carries them, depending on the location. I learned about the turntable I eventually purchased by reading Absolute Sound (and seeing it in ads in Stereophile).

 

[thedelihaus]

I dig reading Stereophile but the gear pricing is typically out of my range. It's nice to have alternatives.

Back issues of Stereophile are great for reading about high end gear that has become affordable on the used market.

 

[blackfly]

I agree. Quality like that doesn't come cheap. I loved the interview they had a couple years ago with the guy who started Magico speakers. If I had the money I sure as hell would buy a set of their speakers.

Magico is a rare exception to the high end, and I am one who believes in the products they make and, with a little forturne, could see me owning them in the future.

CNC machining the front baffle is not cheap, nor are the crossovers used in the Magico line. You get what you pay for.

But I am also a regular reader of Stereophile and The Absolute Sound and wholeheartedly agree that the high end, past a certain point, is totally ridiculous. For example, take my amplifier brand, Bryston.

Their top model, the 1000w 28B is about as good as solid state amps get. There is not a speaker made it cannot drive with ease. A pair, retail, is $16000. High, but consider Lamm audio makes amps in the $100K mark, as does Soulution. Are they better than the Bryston? Some think so, but after hearing what Bryston is all about I am convinced the highest end exists only as an exercise in profiteering with offering little if any improvement. Amps especially are tough to prove as really nothing NEW is realized. I would venture however that this is not always the case with speakers. The aforementioned Magico company makes a new model, the M5 that is about $90K and is a tour de force in speaker design and quality. Given fortune I would, without hesitation, buy them. The amps of course would be the Bryston 28B (get the feeling I have thought this out? Whatever gave you that idea)

Even more absurd is the cost of high end cables, where some preport the cost of R+D account for the cost.

But PT Barnum is not quoted for nothing.

I think the law of diminishing returns is hit pretty early in audio, but then we all have egos to stroke, pride to swell, and bragging rights to uphold. Funny in all of this there is no mention of better sound or true evolution in music reproduction at a time it needs it the most.