Strain Gauge catridges
- Thread starter voltcontrol
- Start date
Pio1980
AK Member
Paydirt!
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102701
Click "FIND IT IN STORE" tab.
You're the greatest! I found a number of locations nearby. Monday's errand...
Best regards, DM
Pio1980
AK Member
Some intermission Strain Gauge chalk talk
Here's some additional refs providing some basic info and some assertions corrected by an acknowledged expert;
http://www.omega.com/literature/tran...e3/strain.html
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/vi...5c66798d0f5a25
Here's some additional refs providing some basic info and some assertions corrected by an acknowledged expert;
http://www.omega.com/literature/tran...e3/strain.html
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/vi...5c66798d0f5a25
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
I guess I just want to pop in here again and reinforce the importance of correct VTA with the Panasonics/Shibatas as Pio has stressed.
Today, I decided to play some CD-4 records and, earlier in this thread I believe, I stated I wasn't sure if the features of these cartridges as claimed were as obvious as they should be although they sure seemed to be when I first had the cartridge (EPC 450C II with a 451C stylus).
These features are an immediacy to the music, especially transcients, and sounds popping out from the background far more readily than with magnetics. Just a more "live" sound.
So, I put on the "The Best of the Doors" and listened all the way through. It sounded good but not really anything special. My magnetics would have been just as good.
So then I put on "Holiday" by America and it didn't really reach out and grab me either.
I decided to check things out and it looked like the cartridge was tail down a bit. My BIC has an adjustable headshell angle relative to the arm tube rather than the usual rear-of-the-arm adjustment. It comes with a gauge to see if the top of the headshell and, thus, the top of the cartridge is level and boy was it off!
I don't know when that happened but I know I had it right-on when I first set it up. I corrected it and replayed the America record and WOW! What a difference. They were right in the room! Put on the Doors record and same thing.
It's that thing that, even though you may have heard a particular song many, many times, something just happens. The closing instrumental bars to "Sister Golden Hair" just took me right in. I couldn't believe how incredible it sounded.
Now I'm curious as to how the top of your cartridges are when you achieve the best sound. Is the top level and parallel with the record?
I know it will be somewhat dependent on the stylus and the deflection of the cantilever but they should all be close if within spec. tolerance.
Now, if you will excuse me, Jackson Brown and his band are here and want to play...
Doug
Today, I decided to play some CD-4 records and, earlier in this thread I believe, I stated I wasn't sure if the features of these cartridges as claimed were as obvious as they should be although they sure seemed to be when I first had the cartridge (EPC 450C II with a 451C stylus).
These features are an immediacy to the music, especially transcients, and sounds popping out from the background far more readily than with magnetics. Just a more "live" sound.
So, I put on the "The Best of the Doors" and listened all the way through. It sounded good but not really anything special. My magnetics would have been just as good.
So then I put on "Holiday" by America and it didn't really reach out and grab me either.
I decided to check things out and it looked like the cartridge was tail down a bit. My BIC has an adjustable headshell angle relative to the arm tube rather than the usual rear-of-the-arm adjustment. It comes with a gauge to see if the top of the headshell and, thus, the top of the cartridge is level and boy was it off!
I don't know when that happened but I know I had it right-on when I first set it up. I corrected it and replayed the America record and WOW! What a difference. They were right in the room! Put on the Doors record and same thing.
It's that thing that, even though you may have heard a particular song many, many times, something just happens. The closing instrumental bars to "Sister Golden Hair" just took me right in. I couldn't believe how incredible it sounded.
Now I'm curious as to how the top of your cartridges are when you achieve the best sound. Is the top level and parallel with the record?
I know it will be somewhat dependent on the stylus and the deflection of the cantilever but they should all be close if within spec. tolerance.
Now, if you will excuse me, Jackson Brown and his band are here and want to play...
Doug
Pio1980
AK Member
Hey Doug! Mine's level top-to-record. The correct angle's so close to level that sighting is approximate but usually sufficient. I like to 'dial it in' if the arm permits. I could hear it was "special" right off, even when the leveling was off. I'm using of course a dedicated stereo pre that has a lot less 'stuff' in the signal path than the decoder in either mode, so it should be more sonically "transparent" than the decoder's pre.
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
OK, great!
It's good to have the confirmation. Both that I have mine close and that Panasonic had their stuff together in the execution of the design for consistancy.
I have had some other cartridges which have unintended variations (like some Empire cartridge brackets holding the cartridge at the wrong angle!)
On-the-fly is ideal, especially for styli like the Shibata but I guess I can't have that unless I can invent some kind of little almost microscopic remote motor driven device to turn the eccentric screw while the arm tracks. \:^)
Qilin, it's also good to hear that the JICO stylus works well.
Anyway, yes, the simpler stereo preamp is definitely a cleaner path and it is a little mind boggling when you realize all the contortions through which the signals have to go in a typical CD-4 demodulator but it is amazing how good it can sound when everything is "together."
Doug
It's good to have the confirmation. Both that I have mine close and that Panasonic had their stuff together in the execution of the design for consistancy.
I have had some other cartridges which have unintended variations (like some Empire cartridge brackets holding the cartridge at the wrong angle!)
On-the-fly is ideal, especially for styli like the Shibata but I guess I can't have that unless I can invent some kind of little almost microscopic remote motor driven device to turn the eccentric screw while the arm tracks. \:^)
Qilin, it's also good to hear that the JICO stylus works well.
Anyway, yes, the simpler stereo preamp is definitely a cleaner path and it is a little mind boggling when you realize all the contortions through which the signals have to go in a typical CD-4 demodulator but it is amazing how good it can sound when everything is "together."
Doug
Hello Doug,
My 451C had a lot of distortion when I acquired it a few weeks ago. After alignment checks, etc, I figured the needle was worn, so I ordered a new Jico replacement shibata. The old needle is white plastic with no label - probably a cheap replacement, not original. My new Jico shibata is red plastic with '4CHANNEL' label. I also ordered some white plastic 'STEREO' labelled replacement needles, but haven't tried them yet. The first listen with the new Jico stylus was fantastic!
I think my alignment is pretty close, including VTA. I would plan to continue tweaking it, as you rightly point out.
But I haven't been playing my 451C for a week, as I am waiting for parts to arrive to get into the DIY preamp project, with Pio1980's expert guidance!
Best regards, DM
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
I actually have three turntables connected to my system. My original (1976) BIC 980 gets the honors of CD-4 play. A BIC 1000 is for regular stereo and matrix quadraphonic LPs. A Dual 1019 is for 78s and 45s.
So, the 451C stylus only sees CD-4 records and probably won't get worn past usefulness in my remaining liftime. At least it is very apparent with CD-4 when a stylus IS worn past usefulness!
I have a conical stylus for an EPC-450 also but no cartridge for it. It is different physically than the later Panasonic strain gauge styli. Yellow too.
Doug
So, the 451C stylus only sees CD-4 records and probably won't get worn past usefulness in my remaining liftime. At least it is very apparent with CD-4 when a stylus IS worn past usefulness!
I have a conical stylus for an EPC-450 also but no cartridge for it. It is different physically than the later Panasonic strain gauge styli. Yellow too.
Doug
Last edited:
Hello Pio1980,
I will be interested to learn the results of your proof-check!
On the resistors, do you think I should get 'audiophile' grade? Mouser has various brands at 5.23K, but the audiophile brands carried by a different vendor are either 4.7K or 5.6K. Or I could stop in my local Ratshack tomorrow.
Interested in your recommendations!
Best regards, DM
I will be interested to learn the results of your proof-check!
On the resistors, do you think I should get 'audiophile' grade? Mouser has various brands at 5.23K, but the audiophile brands carried by a different vendor are either 4.7K or 5.6K. Or I could stop in my local Ratshack tomorrow.
Interested in your recommendations!
Best regards, DM
Pio1980
AK Member
Really good news! The combination of that board and the RS xformer has enuff depth to float the on-board regulators with sufficient reserve for proper operation.
Qilin, I have a couple spare board kits. Suppose I send you one and you send me one of yours when they arrive, that should shorten the wait considerably.
Qilin, I have a couple spare board kits. Suppose I send you one and you send me one of yours when they arrive, that should shorten the wait considerably.
Hi Folks
another alternative to Soundsmith for SG information might be Lou Dorren - he has been a long term proponent of the Panasonic SG's - he is currently designing/building a pre with SG capability (with the panasonics specifically in mind) - and might have some knowledge to contribute.
He occasionally posts on http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/
- I have temporarily put aside my own SG experiment after I suddenly lost a channel - the pre is suspect, and I have no time at the moment to start debugging it.... I am hoping the Lou Dorren pre will come out before I get to the point of finding time for a serious look at the panasonic pre.
bye for now
David
another alternative to Soundsmith for SG information might be Lou Dorren - he has been a long term proponent of the Panasonic SG's - he is currently designing/building a pre with SG capability (with the panasonics specifically in mind) - and might have some knowledge to contribute.
He occasionally posts on http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/
- I have temporarily put aside my own SG experiment after I suddenly lost a channel - the pre is suspect, and I have no time at the moment to start debugging it.... I am hoping the Lou Dorren pre will come out before I get to the point of finding time for a serious look at the panasonic pre.
bye for now
David
Hello dlaloum,
Do you have the Panasonic SE-405 pre-amp? I have one, and the left channel is either 'weak' (low output relative to the right channel), or sometimes there is no left channel sound at all. I was worried about my SG cartridge, but like you, I now believe the preamp to be the culprit. I have not had the inclination to more deeply diagnose it yet.
Best regards, DM