anyone ever use one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350140037062
stylus pressure gauge
- Thread starter john3769
- Start date
BrocLuno
Lunatic Member
I don't suggest getting anal about tracking force. Even though I have two digital scales to use in set-up, once I have figured out how far off the scale is on any given TT, it's just a matter of dialing in the "correct" number as a starting point. Afterall, you really wnat to start with a number in the MFGs acceptable range and then adjust TF to the upper limit and lower limit while you test play. Most of my Grados sound best near the top of the recommended range, the Shures in the middle, and some of the AT's near the bottom. Final TF is determined by ear using headphones in my set-ups 
ferninando
Lunatic Member
Yes, headphones are crucial to hearing the effects of mistracking. Going thru the "audio Obsticle Course" test record is a revealing experience to say the least under hdphons. No other way to do it IMO.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
John, what turntable are you using? If you can just give us that information, we might be able to provide a very simple way of alignment. I think that product is interesting, but you will end up paying $30 and just be more confused.
There are free protractors for download at vinylengine.com that work just fine and there are even easier, faster methods available depending on your turntable. It is not necessary to spend a lot of money to properly align your cartridge.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
Okay, great, as one member would say, a legendary turntable with a legendary cartridge. 
The problem with that protractor on ebay is that if you don't know any of the measurements on your turntable, like mounting distance, arm length, offset angle, it's worthless because it depends on your inputting those values to come up with a result.
The Concept was made in Japan and therefore most likely was designed with Stevenson geometry. Most of the popular protractors today are based on Baerwald. Any will work as long as you have room in the headshell. Baerwald pushes the cartridge so far forward that it won't work in most Japanese arms--and that is the limitation that usually dictates what works best.
So my suggestion is to download the Stevenson protractor from vinylengine.com. When you print it, make sure that all scaling (fit to page, shrink to page, etc) is turned off and that the scale test line is 180mm (7").
The generally accepted method is to go back and forth between both grids and line up so when the stylus tip is on the center point that the cantilever is parallel to the lines.
A faster method and one that usually works fine is to simply keep the cartridge square in the headshell and line up parallel using only the inner grid. Japanese manufacturers usually intended that the cartridge line up with the headshell as that establishes the offset angle. The inner grid assures that the lowest distortion is at the inner grooves where it is most problematic. When using this method, the outer point may not coincide exactly with the outer Stevenson point, but will be close enough.
The problem with that protractor on ebay is that if you don't know any of the measurements on your turntable, like mounting distance, arm length, offset angle, it's worthless because it depends on your inputting those values to come up with a result.
The Concept was made in Japan and therefore most likely was designed with Stevenson geometry. Most of the popular protractors today are based on Baerwald. Any will work as long as you have room in the headshell. Baerwald pushes the cartridge so far forward that it won't work in most Japanese arms--and that is the limitation that usually dictates what works best.
So my suggestion is to download the Stevenson protractor from vinylengine.com. When you print it, make sure that all scaling (fit to page, shrink to page, etc) is turned off and that the scale test line is 180mm (7").
The generally accepted method is to go back and forth between both grids and line up so when the stylus tip is on the center point that the cantilever is parallel to the lines.
A faster method and one that usually works fine is to simply keep the cartridge square in the headshell and line up parallel using only the inner grid. Japanese manufacturers usually intended that the cartridge line up with the headshell as that establishes the offset angle. The inner grid assures that the lowest distortion is at the inner grooves where it is most problematic. When using this method, the outer point may not coincide exactly with the outer Stevenson point, but will be close enough.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Having a good digital has advantages, being quick, and easy to use. They are very convenient for a person who swaps in different Cartridges for one.
In my particular instance, I'm now using a custom aftermarket Expressimo Drop Counterweight, that has only an Allen Set Screw that secures it to Arm Counterweight Stub.
While I've used the Shure SFG-2 for many years, and still have it, it would be difficult to use in this instance, making very minor VTF Changes, and then confirming that I have actually changed them in the direction I wish to go!
Just like achieving correct VTA, proper Alignment, VTF is critical with many high quality MC Cartridges. There is a magic achieved by critically setting VTF, and many can go from good sound, to phenominally fantastic by as little a change of .2g. I usually lighten VTF until mistracking distortion begins to set in, then slowly increase VTF in .1g increments until it's gone. As you say, better to slightly err on the higher side, to lessen chance of Groove Damage created by tracking too light. Mark
In your case it sounds like maybe a digital scale makes sense, since your arm has no markings on the counterweight to set tracking force. But many, or most arms do, and not all that many users switch cartridges often. So its relatively easy and quick to get close to the ideal tracking force, and then if the nth degree of perfection is required, final adjustment should be done by ear anyway -- what was perfect a month ago might have changed because of aging of the damper, or temperature change or whatever. I would guess that at the price most digital scales go for, most users would do better to put the money toward a better cartridge, or a timely replacement stylus.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
I agree with eveything you say Nat, I believe you to be
100% correct on all counts with your last post.
I almost did that "fool thing" myself, I was going to buy a decent scale, and didn't at first know any better, thinking that to get a good digital, with .01g resolution,that I was going to have to drop big bucks at one of the online Audio Stores (MusicDirect-Elusive Disc, Audio Advisor, Acoustic Sounds, etc)
Here, an acquaintance "wised me up" about Old Will Knot Scales, and some other businesses like them, who have very nice Digital Scales, without the break the bank prices. This $29.95 el cheapo Proscale LC-50 from Old Will Knot that I did wind up buying, appears to be the exact same scale as the Clearaudio Weight Watcher, which commonly sells for $225-$249 at the Audio Stores I mention above. Clearaudio evidently just puts thier name on it instead, and then tacks on the additional profit.
Oh, somebody asked what would be an easy reference weight to check a Scale, a common Nickel "supposed" to weigh exactly 5g, but I have found slight variance from 4.9g, to about 5.1g Mark
ferninando
Lunatic Member
I just got a 1 gram scale weight reference for a few bucks on ebay for my digiscale I just ordered(222 .01 from oldwillknot). Now just waiting for delivery. All we're measureing is 1 gram +/- .5 to 1 gram so a 1 gm cal is all I need just to keep the scale honest and compare with my trustworthy shure gage.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
Hi-fi-Mano,
Your not at all wrong. Yes, a Protractor, a Test Disc, a Scale, , and what ever other tools get you through, they are all "toys".
Most "Philes" are not worried about a number of rigs, they are worried about one. The issues at hand is, how much is invested in "that rig"?
Me, I'm on the "super cheap", running a $3K phono Stage, a pure solid silver Tonearm Cable, a Cartridge that cost me $2300 street price, a custom modified VPI Table, with custom parts that cost me $40/hr labor plus materials to have made (you don't want to know the total cost), Straightwire IC's, or AQ throughout. I could go on, and on, but I think you get the point.
I paid $90 for a Mintlp Protractor, worth every penny, I've got numerous tools, boxes full. an accumilation of Spare Stylus' lying aroung that cost more than many people's Turntables.
Am I bragging, no. This was the evolution I came to after 36-37 years in analog.
I try to educate here. haven't you read any other posts by me?, that a good scale doesn't have to cost $200-$800?
That a good digital is no more money than a Shure Teeter Totter Scale?
So, let me ask you? If I put in your hands, a ZYX UNIverse Cartridge (check the price yourself) a Triplanar Arm, on a Galibier Serac Turntable how you choose to set it up? Should a lesser set-up get lesser attention?
Or is it, that a lesser "user" should neglect that he/she just doesn't care, or know any better, and that an eyeball set-up of VTA VTF, Alignment is good enough?
Yes, I know, the ear, the ears! Just like Laser Interferometry can test a world class Telescope Lens-Mirror, but the final criterion is of course, the human eye! BUT!, the tools do help! Mark
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
I see this as a good move Hi Fi Mano.
Check it out, and please let us know how it works out?
As I said tools, tools, tools. No, they may not make things better, but sometimes they make things a hell of a lot easier.
Like I previously mentioned about Telescope Optics.
Well, one could take a world class Astro-Physics, Takahashi, or a Zeiss APQ Refractor, and now want to do some real testing out in the field, viewing Jupiter, or trying to sight the Spokes in Saturn's Rings, at 600X on a steady night of seeing. The cheap Edmund Scientific $29 Eyepieces just ain't gonna cut it for these critical viewing tests.
I've known many, who have shelled out $3600 for a set of 6 Zeiss Abbe Orthoscopic Eyepieces, to squeeze every little last bit of performance, and know, that the Eyepiece won't be the shortcoming in thier Optical Systems. And to insure that these world class optics will deliever every last little bit of performance they can.
I reckon the "catch phrase" is "passion". We all have varying degrees of it. Mark
MsJazzMaven
New Member
Had the AR scale--miss it
The AR scale, pictured above by more than one poster, came with my AR XA turntable. Still have the turntable, but the scale was stolen by an unscrupulous cleaning service:sigh:. It was simple to use and very reliable. Does anyone know where I could buy an affordable replacement online?
The AR scale, pictured above by more than one poster, came with my AR XA turntable. Still have the turntable, but the scale was stolen by an unscrupulous cleaning service:sigh:. It was simple to use and very reliable. Does anyone know where I could buy an affordable replacement online?
