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Super cool Altec JBL speaker find

musiqlovr said:
Is there an Altec that can go in its place?
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The 2235 is excellent. It was used successfully at up to 800 Hz in the large format Biradial monitor series. This really looks like the perfect place to have a simple two way active crossover. the amp for the high end probably could be 25 watts but clean sounding.
I've built a couple of systems using 2235's in 5 cu. ft enclosures, and can offer some advice that I know you will be pleased with. Move your cabinets to at least two feet away from the walls in back and to the sides. You can fine tune the placement from there, but I think you will be very pleasantly surprised by the results.
 
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Nyjblbob said:
Any updates?
Jmho Jbl 15’s especially the Foam edge ones
Produce much deeper Bass than any Altec’s
Bobhorn
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I ordered a bunch of parts to make a set of crossovers and I have gathered everything up and hope to assemble them this weekend. Currently I have a set of crossovers from @BillWojo and the crossover frequency is too high for the 2235h...also, I really feel I need massive padding down of the HF, there is a huge noticeable (in my opinion at least) difference in the efficiency between the JBL LF and ALTEC HF. I am planning to listen with these drivers once I build the new crossover but I could see changing the HF driver out to an 802.
 
musiqlovr said:
I ordered a bunch of parts to make a set of crossovers and I have gathered everything up and hope to assemble them this weekend. Currently I have a set of crossovers from @BillWojo and the crossover frequency is too high for the 2235h...also, I really feel I need massive padding down of the HF, there is a huge noticeable (in my opinion at least) difference in the efficiency between the JBL LF and ALTEC HF. I am planning to listen with these drivers once I build the new crossover but I could see changing the HF driver out to an 802.
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In just my opinion I would not upgrade the Altec mid Driver, there is not much difference from an 806 to 802’s. All horn drivers are more efficient than any Cone speakers.
It really depends on if you are going to Keep the 511 horns. They are nice horns but do have Issues,Ringing, and the directivity of extreme Highs. The Ringing can be addressed, and for the Highs there are many good inexpensive Horn tweets. You already have both Jbl and Altecs in Homemade cabinets, with the Horns on top. I’m not Knocking them they are obviously made extremely well.
You are still going to have custom made Crossovers Me being a huge Jbl Collector
I personally would sell of the 511’s and 806’s
And look to make a super 4430 pair,
using the larger Le85 or 2420 mids and the fabulous “Dolly Pardon” or baby cheeks Horns
They are plentiful out there, I have 3 sets LOL
Good luck
Bobhorn
 
EarlK said:
Altec_N1201-8a.jpg


For a new point ( of say @ 800hz ) simply multiply the following cap & coil values of ( C1, C2, C3, L2, L3 ) by 1.5 .

Your new values ( rounded to somewhat available component values will be ( 12uF, 24uF, 32uF, 4mH, + 1.2mH ) .

These will get you in the ball park, after which you'll need to adjust to taste ( ie' some tweaking of values is required ).

Use something like REW to capture the frequency response to help find the problem areas to then give an idea of what values need adjusting.
- ( IOW, you'll need to do a lot of the leg work ).

Most of the greatest errors of your new network will be from the substitute woofer ( the JBL ) as well as from using the larger 511 horn
( which puts the "Z-axis" // Voice-coil offset, at a greater distance than between the 811/802 + the 416-8B ).

Without out some real data it's impossible predict how good or bad these values will work for you.

Eventually you'll likely want to add a tweeter to address the anemic HF response of the 807 driver ( above 7 -10K ) or get a pair of 802-8G's.

<> EarlK

BTW, Bills work on his custom 1201 is masterful !

index.php
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Hey Earl @EarlK

So I built a second order Linkwitz Riley hinged at 635hz. Uses 4.0MH inductor and 15UF PIO’s. The woofer tighten up and sounds better but for sure I need some type of HF attenuator, wondering if you can make a suggestion? Can I wire something in before or after the L pad on the HF?

Thanks!
 
EarlK said:
Sure, you can wire in an 8 ohm variable Lpad ( 50 watt type ) between the HF portion of the crossover and the driver.

I'm really not clear on what crossover you're building ( since you just mentioned above that you bought some parts to start assembling one .

??

:)
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@EarlK

Sorry, I should have been much more clear. I have way too many speaker projects going on...

So, on this project, I have been compiling lots of parts but at the moment I built up a quick second order Linkwitz Riley crossover hinged at 635 hz, I followed an online calculator and it gave me the values for Inductor (4.0MH) and Capacitor (15UF). I built them up, listened, the woofer sounded tighter and better, but the HF was in your face. I then wired in the 8 ohm L pad, as you mention above, it gives me some adjustment, but the speaker needs an eq, so I was thinking to add 30923 or maybe something you can recommend.

2nd Order Linkwitz-Riley

635 Hertz

8 Ohm Tweeter / 8 Ohm Woofer
circuit2.gif
Parts List
Capacitors
C1 = 15.67 uF
C2 = 15.67 uF
Inductors
L1 = 4.01 mH
L2 = 4.01 mH
 
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I had a pair in my possession at one point that Jaymanaa had gotten from Redboy I think, but my Altecs did not have stock drivers, they had Renkus-Heinze drivers so I never did use the crossover and gave it back. They are probably still in Jay's basement, God rest his soul.
 
toxcrusadr said:
Maybe you should build the Zilch crossover designed to tame just that problem with the Altec horns.
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If I can figure out a diagram with the freq set lower (600 or 750 hz or so), I totally would. That is my ultimate goal-to build a set of Zilch style crossovers on some fancy boards and stuff. I have been stock piling parts, but I'd like to get something built up that I like the sound of first. So far, I am leaning towards ditching the JBL drivers in favor of Altec 416's, but until I listen to a proper crossover with a lower crossover freq and some sort of HF EQ, I am not sure I can say that the JBL will not work...

Hoping someone can draw out a schematic I can build.
 
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Hey Steve, look at a schematic for a Altec 30904 attenuator equalizer network. It knocks down the upper mid range on the horns. It's built into the Model 19 crossovers.

BillWojo
 
Steve,

Listen to Bill , build up Altec's 30904/30923 equalizer network and then place it between your current passive network and the driver.

You can adjust the amount of midrange attenuation somewhat by wiring in 1 leg of your existing 8 ohm LPad .

Something like this works;

Altec806-511_500hz_.PNG

As has been pointed out previously, your current HF driver suffers from anemic HF.

I've used ( within this sim of an Altec 806 on a 511 horn ) one of many response-curves that Zilch made over a decade ago ( as well as using an impedance file from my own 23744 diaphragm in a 802-8G ).
- Sadly, the 807 has a smidge less HF than the 806.

Unless you add a tweeter to your current setup you'll need to find a pair of 802-8Gs ( in good repair ) to get the missing top octave ( unless you go active and EQ it back in with something like the miniDSP already mentioned ).

:)
 
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EarlK said:
Steve,

Listen to Bill , build up Altec's 30904/30923 equalizer network and then place it between your current passive network and the driver.

You can adjust the amount of midrange attenuation somewhat by wiring in 1 leg of your existing 8 ohm LPad .

Something like this works;

View attachment 1657506

As has been pointed out previously, your current HF driver suffers from anemic HF.

I've used ( within this sim of an Altec 806 on a 511 horn ) one of many response-curves that Zilch made over a decade ago ( as well as using an impedance file from my own 23744 diaphragm in a 802-8G ).
- Sadly, the 807 has a smidge less HF than the 806.

Unless you add a tweeter to your current setup you'll need to find a pair of 802-8Gs ( in good repair ) to get the missing top octave ( unless you go active and EQ it back in with something like the miniDSP already mentioned ).

:)
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@EarlK Awesome! THANK YOU!

A few notes, Bill let me borrow a set of 909's, so they are here at the moment (should I try them?).

Also, I have a set of 802, I just need to send them to GPA-I got them from Bill, but they need new diaphragms....

I am totally open to swapping the 807 for 802 (I need to measure and make sure the 802 will fit inside the top cabinet).
 
Hi,

Absolutely try the 909s.

Their heat-treated Alu ( pre-hardened ) diaphragms ( which includes the suspension btw ) won't go as low as the softer ( more supple ) Alu types ( ie; 21597/23744, 34647 or 35480 frams ) so for a bit of protection I would raise the electrical crossover point of the HiPass to at least 750hz ( change 15uF to 10uF and the 4mH coil to 2 mH as a start ).

:)
 
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nedseg said:
:) As long as he wasn't their o-ring specialist, yup, good bet he knew what he was doin'!
Will be interested in your report of how they sound w/the 2235s in them - sure are pretty beasts.
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Actually, the O-rings were fine when they were used in spec (ie: not in temps near freezing). The techs a Morton-Thikol were saying don't launch the entire time but were overruled by mgmt/NASA.

That said, beautiful speakers. Agree with damacman as well. Listen as is for awhile after the refoam before making any changes.
 
so a bit of a diversion...I have a few speaker projects going on (A7's and Tannoy and other stuff)...Anyway I had bought a set of Werner (mast mutter on Ebay) crossovers for the A7 project and they showed up today. Billwojo is on his way over and we are gonna mess with some gear and do some listening BUT...while I was waiting for him to arrive I setup the Werner crossovers with the 909's and damn if these speakers aren't near perfect! Werner's crossovers have a lot going on (custom transformer, auto former, PIO etc) but they are magic here. My Shindo sounds wonderful but on this speaker I can tell just a little more power would really make the speaker sing perfectly.

I will still build the passive crossover with the 30904/30923 added in and report back, but with the Werner crossovers in place, the speakers are sounding excellent! Too bad I am about to remove these crossovers and add them to the A7 as soon as Billwojo shows up...

Keep you all updated as this progresses
 
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