Super cool Altec JBL speaker find

[BillWojo]

Well I got to hear both setups with the Werner crossovers. It was the best that I have heard the JBL/Altec speakers. I commented to Steve that the beautiful speakers now sound beautiful.
Next up we installed the crossovers on the A-7's with the bent 32 horns and the 909's.
Steve said it best, the JBL/Altec sound like great hifi speakers but those A-7 sound like music. Those big old A-7 speakers just fill the room, the quality of the bass is awesome and I feel like I'm in a club listening to live music.
If A-7's were living room friendly the price of them would skyrocket. I'm really impressed by what I was listening to tonight.

BillWojo

 

[musiqlovr]

Well I got to hear both setups with the Werner crossovers. It was the best that I have heard the JBL/Altec speakers. I commented to Steve that the beautiful speakers now sound beautiful.
Next up we installed the crossovers on the A-7's with the bent 32 horns and the 909's.
Steve said it best, the JBL/Altec sound like great hifi speakers but those A-7 sound like music. Those big old A-7 speakers just fill the room, the quality of the bass is awesome and I feel like I'm in a club listening to live music.
If A-7's were living room friendly the price of them would skyrocket. I'm really impressed by what I was listening to tonight.

BillWojo

That was fun! Man the A7's are alive, the cabinets are a living breathing musical instrument. Much of what we are taught or learn over time sort of gets taken as gospel and its a shame we don't question or challenge conventional wisdom more often...

A quick aside, I am 42 years old and my whole career has been in the Audio industry, I started with car audio and then home and portable audio. I remember being in awe of massive magnets, long xmax, huge power, rigid cones, dead cabinets etc etc. Over the years I have had so many revelations when it comes to "progress" in audio and the A7's are a prime example. When I first got them I started reading about bracing, sealing, and all the things necessary to make them sound "better". Now, after listening...I cannot imagine doing any of those things as I am quite sure it will hurt the "life" of the music....its soul. Sure you might get lower bass from them but at least here in my room with my 12 watts of Shindo, the bass freaking energizes the room in a way that is addictive. Bill and I both thought we had the JBL/Altec speakers sounding great. Switch to the A7 and it is no comparison at all. Some of you have been following my escapades for years...I am no expert, no golden ears, but if you have been following, I have had at one time 400 watt Electrocompaniet Monoblocks, Ayre Acoustics, Primmer etc etc in Solid State, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustics, Khorn, Forte, and on and on....it seems every time I strip it back to simpler components, wider baffle, larger driver, low power tube, or SET, I just keep getting closer to the music! There are different paths, follow whatever you like, but I urge you not to dismiss vintage gear in the assumption that we have "advanced" driver and speaker technology...I'm not sure we have-we have sucessfully made speakers thinner, narrower and with smaller drivers and that has probably led to the need for 500 watts and subwoofers and on and on-but is it closer to the soul of music???

Look for some A7 cabinets, don't listen to anyone (don't even listen to me), try them as is before assuming you need to dampen the cabinet, brace the cabinet, seal it etc etc etc.

Sorry for the rant, but when something clicks, I believe we should share otherwise what's the point of a community?

 

[bowtie427ss]

Your revelation is one that many of us Altec enthusiasts experienced decades ago. Trust me, it can get much more exciting.

Now that you have discovered what some good mid-bass dynamic attack can do for a loudspeaker's sonic signature, you owe it to yourself to hear an actual full sized VOT speaker system.

The 825/828(A5, A7} cabinet only provides useful horn loading/gain down to about 100hz, and acts as a bass reflex enclosure below that which is always several db down and a bit out of phase. A large format VOT bult on the 210 or 211 cabinet fully horn loads the woofers down to 32-34hz. The natural sounding and effortless bass from them 100 yards away outdoors is something that has to be heard to truly be appreciated.

A7 is limited in bandwidth by design. It's primary design focus for over half a century was uniform in room coverage and high intelligibility of speech/vocals in theaters. For any kind of hifi/critical listening it will always benefit from the addition of VHF elements, and a significant woofer system capable of tracking the A7 dynamics.

While it's not currently set up, i have ran an A7 based system at home in a 28 x 50 foot room for nearly 20 years, and i am still tinkering trying to get the VHF right.

To get LFE to an acceptable scale i run a quad of Emilar EW-15 woofers in 15 ft3 boxes, they get me flat to ~30hz up to about 122db at the back wall, it's glorious!

"Lazy" from "Machine Head" is my favorite demo tune. I have neighbors who would testify that Deep Purple puts on a few private performances in my basement every year.

To quote the moniker of one of my most favored gurus "Loud is beautiful, if it's clean"

 

[EarlK]

Nice testimonials ( it's all very exciting and very much in line with the opinions of others who I respect ) .

Any chance of some action shots showing your new crossovers ( were they bought new or used ) ?

What are the cap values ( I'm wondering if they follow any known Altec network ) ?

 

[damacman]

That was fun! Man the A7's are alive, the cabinets are a living breathing musical instrument. Much of what we are taught or learn over time sort of gets taken as gospel and its a shame we don't question or challenge conventional wisdom more often...

A quick aside, I am 42 years old and my whole career has been in the Audio industry, I started with car audio and then home and portable audio. I remember being in awe of massive magnets, long xmax, huge power, rigid cones, dead cabinets etc etc. Over the years I have had so many revelations when it comes to "progress" in audio and the A7's are a prime example. When I first got them I started reading about bracing, sealing, and all the things necessary to make them sound "better". Now, after listening...I cannot imagine doing any of those things as I am quite sure it will hurt the "life" of the music....its soul. Sure you might get lower bass from them but at least here in my room with my 12 watts of Shindo, the bass freaking energizes the room in a way that is addictive. Bill and I both thought we had the JBL/Altec speakers sounding great. Switch to the A7 and it is no comparison at all. Some of you have been following my escapades for years...I am no expert, no golden ears, but if you have been following, I have had at one time 400 watt Electrocompaniet Monoblocks, Ayre Acoustics, Primmer etc etc in Solid State, Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustics, Khorn, Forte, and on and on....it seems every time I strip it back to simpler components, wider baffle, larger driver, low power tube, or SET, I just keep getting closer to the music! There are different paths, follow whatever you like, but I urge you not to dismiss vintage gear in the assumption that we have "advanced" driver and speaker technology...I'm not sure we have-we have sucessfully made speakers thinner, narrower and with smaller drivers and that has probably led to the need for 500 watts and subwoofers and on and on-but is it closer to the soul of music???

Look for some A7 cabinets, don't listen to anyone (don't even listen to me), try them as is before assuming you need to dampen the cabinet, brace the cabinet, seal it etc etc etc.

Sorry for the rant, but when something clicks, I believe we should share otherwise what's the point of a community?

Many words of truth here. I will never part with my Altecs. For those of you who have not yet heard your favorite vocalist, trumpet, or saxophone player through a well executed horn loaded speaker system, you simply do not understand what is lacking with the very best modern designs.

 

[damacman]

Your revelation is one that many of us Altec enthusiasts experienced decades ago. Trust me, it can get much more exciting.

Now that you have discovered what some good mid-bass dynamic attack can do for a loudspeaker's sonic signature, you owe it to yourself to hear an actual full sized VOT speaker system.

The 825/828(A5, A7} cabinet only provides useful horn loading/gain down to about 100hz, and acts as a bass reflex enclosure below that which is always several db down and a bit out of phase. A large format VOT bult on the 210 or 211 cabinet fully horn loads the woofers down to 32-34hz. The natural sounding and effortless bass from them 100 yards away outdoors is something that has to be heard to truly be appreciated.

A7 is limited in bandwidth by design. It's primary design focus for over half a century was uniform in room coverage and high intelligibility of speech/vocals in theaters. For any kind of hifi/critical listening it will always benefit from the addition of VHF elements, and a significant woofer system capable of tracking the A7 dynamics.

While it's not currently set up, i have ran an A7 based system at home in a 28 x 50 foot room for nearly 20 years, and i am still tinkering trying to get the VHF right.

To get LFE to an acceptable scale i run a quad of Emilar EW-15 woofers in 15 ft3 boxes, they get me flat to ~30hz up to about 122db at the back wall, it's glorious!

"Lazy" from "Machine Head" is my favorite demo tune. I have neighbors who would testify that Deep Purple puts on a few private performances in my basement every year.

To quote the moniker of one of my most favored gurus "Loud is beautiful, if it's clean"

Is there a thread on said system sir?

 

[musiqlovr]

Nice testimonials ( it's all very exciting and very much in line with the opinions of others who I respect ) .

Any chance of some action shots showing your new crossovers ( were they bought new or used ) ?

What are the cap values ( I'm wondering if they follow any known Altec network ) ?

I will take some pics and post them. I got these from another member who bought them direct from Germany.

 

[twiiii]

807 ought to be up graded to the newer diaphragm from Great Plains Audio. That would give a flatter response above 12 KHZ. It won't match a model 19, but for most it will be good enough. I would also change to a N1201 crossover to negate some of the negative sounds of a 511 horn. You should have 416 Altec woofers, but JBL owners can give you better advice than I can.. It seems the 2236 is more like the Altec 411. Its not negative being less efficient, But the fact that you need a bigger amp that you wouldn't need other wise.

 

[Nyjblbob]

807 ought to be up graded to the newer diaphragm from Great Plains Audio. That would give a flatter response above 12 KHZ. It won't match a model 19, but for most it will be good enough. I would also change to a N1201 crossover to negate some of the negative sounds of a 511 horn. You should have 416 Altec woofers, but JBL owners can give you better advice than I can.. It seems the 2236 is more like the Altec 411. Its not negative being less efficient, But the fact that you need a bigger amp that you wouldn't need other wise.

The Altec 411 Ceramic Magnet woofers were Altec’s dismal attempt to
Match Jbl’s Le15s and 136’s Deep down Thump.Having Ribbed Heavy cones ,
4” VC’s and Foam edges just go Lower especially in smaller ported cabinets.
At the expense of efficiency speed and midrange capabilities that the 416’s much lighter and thinner cones Excel at.
The New
Model 19’s Changed The game! Adding a much bigger cabinets and a more refined Xover design. They later changed the Diaframs
To a more durable surrounds that were happier
Down at the Xover point as well as more durable.
Altec never used the 411 Woofers in any consumer speakers after the sales flop of the Barcelona’s. A beautiful and somewhat Rare speaker that did produce Jbl like Bass and used the 511 horns
To better go with the 500 Xovers.
Altec. They also used the 411 woofers in a smaller version of the Barcelona with 811 horns forgot the model name.also a sales flop