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Surround Processor & separate amps

terminalVolt

terminalVolt

New Member
What are peoples thoughts, experience, and/or recommendations on surround preamps/processors and separate power amps? I have 4 dual-mono power amps that I would really like to use in my theater setup. My reasoning is primarily because I would much rather replace the head unit when I want an upgrade as opposed to replacing the entire system, and secondly I don't trust how hot all in one receivers get within such a small enclosure. I really just want something to decode encoded sound formats like Dolby Atmos. Does anyone have a recommendation for a head unit?
 
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terminalVolt said:
What are peoples thoughts, experience, and/or recommendations on surround preamps/processors and separate power amps? I have 4 dual-mono power amps that I would really like to use in my theater setup. My reasoning is primarily because I would much rather replace the head unit when I want an upgrade as opposed to replacing the entire system, and secondly I don't trust how hot all in one receivers get within such a small enclosure. I really just want something to decode encoded sound formats like Dolby Atmos. Does anyone have a recommendation for a head unit?
Click to expand...

All of my surround systems have incorporated separate power amps, a preamp, and a separate surround processor as does my current.

My center channel even has its own stereo amp bridged mono for 300watts. My front mains have a 400watt amp, the rears 150 per channel, and twin 12" powered subs connected in stereo round out the equation.

But here's the thing, my 2 channel music listening has always been paramount so having the newest and coolest surround formats haven't been a requirement. So much so that I have another complete 2 channel system sharing only the same preamp and space (media rm).
 
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Grenadeslio said:
All of my surround systems have incorporated separate power amps, a preamp, and a separate surround processor as does my current.

My center channel even has its own stereo amp bridged mono for 300watts. My front mains have a 400watt amp, the rears 150 per channel, and twin 12" powered subs connected in stereo round out the equation.

But here's the thing, my 2 channel music listening has always been paramount so having the newest and coolest surround formats haven't been a requirement. So much so that I have another complete 2 channel system sharing only the same preamp and space (media rm).
Click to expand...
I had considered just going with one Subwoofer operating off channel 2 of the Center speakers amp, If I wanted to use the 2nd LFE channel I had considered mounting a bass shaker to the sofa in my prospective theater room, or perhaps to a floor joist to give the room a real shaking. I REALLY want to take advantage of Atmos, I don't much care for theaters I always end up running to the restroom every 12 second much to the anguish of my fellow movie goers.
 
I like my Yamaha CX-A5100 but it is my first AV pre-amp so I really have nothing to compare it to.

The higher end AVRs allow you to use external amps for mains (and other channels I assume) which comes in handy if you are looking to run 11 channel Atmos or run additional powered zones. Dig deep in the manuals to see what can be done with amp assignments.
 
I had a high end Harman Kardon AVR7300 - 7x125w/ch and I used the preamp outs and ran discrete stereo amps, with a 3 channel amp for a while for the center and rear surrounds,
and an HLK Citation 22 bridged to mono for something like 500-600 watts mono to run the subwoofers.When the HK 7300 blew for the second time, I got an Integra Preamp/Processor for the head unit.
These days I'm running B&K amps for everything except the sub - which still runs nicely with the HK Citation in mono ...
I like the idea of discrete components in the Home Theatre system.
 
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you want a "pre/pro" unfortunately they won't be much cheaper than a receiver but as you say a good amp is a good amp so you'll likely end up with a higher end unit.

I don't have any specific recommendations; I do not play at that high a level.
 
Even many mid-range AVRs have pre outs for all channels these days.

One thing to be aware of is the nature of channels listed isn't always the same as the processing capability of the unit.

A unit may be advertised as 7.1 and have ATMOS, and it is/does, but you can't necessarily do all at once. For example, if you wanted to run a traditional 7.1 setup, ATMOS would not be available because that would require more than 7 channels of processing. It this example if you want ATMOS you could run only the traditional 5.1 layout with 2 ATMOS speakers (5.1.2) since that still adds up to 7 channels of processing (the .1 LFE notwithstanding).

Point being, be sure the unit has enough channels of processing for all the speakers/features you wish to use simultaneously.

Far as units, I've had good results with Anthem AVM 20v2 (was fairly spendy) and Marantz AV7005 processors. I also have an older, albeit new enough to have HDMI, Yamaha RX-V1700 receiver that's been rock solid too.

With the processors I'm using a couple multi-channel amps in the "small" setup and four pretty powerful QSC 2-ch pro audio amps in the "big" rig.
 
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I have an upscale pre-amp / processor (MX151) and individual amps for all my speakers.

I have been running this sort of arrangement for years and for me the benefit is that I can optimize amplification for the speakers.

That pairing won't be affected if the processor goes down. In that case all I have to do is deal with setting up the new pre/processor. I just had to do that after my MX135 was replaced.
 
You didn't mention a budget but the point that a lot of AVRs include premp outputs is valid. Most of the common brands don't even offer a pre/pro, and the ones that do generally only have one or two TOTL models. You could go upscale to something like McIntosh or Sunfire, but then you're talking about a whole lot more money. I was going to suggest Outlaw audio for a more reasonably priced solution, but they don't have a model that support Atmos. And after checking, it appears that Sunfire is now concentrating more on speakers than electronics. So while your logic is valid, the market doesn't bear it out. Your best bet will probably be, as others have already mentioned, to purchase an AVR and not use the built-in amps (or maybe use them only for some channels, like your Atmos speakers). If you're concerned about heat, you can mount a small computer fan on top of the cabinet.

For AVPs, here's what I've found with a brief search:

Yamaha CX-A5200 - $2700
Marantz AV7705 - $2200
Marants AV8805 - $4500
Onkyo PR-RX5100 - $2300 (website says sold out, may be available from other sellers)
Arcam AV860 - $5500
Anthem AVM60 - $2400
NAD M17V2 - $6600

Sony, Denon and Pioneer do not appear to offer a pre/pro. JVC's product line looks like it hasn't been updated in 15 years, and they've moved decidedly downmarket since their heyday anyway. Technics is strictly two channel. Kenwood is now a part of JVC.
 
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terminalVolt said:
What are peoples thoughts, experience, and/or recommendations on surround preamps/processors and separate power amps? I have 4 dual-mono power amps that I would really like to use in my theater setup. My reasoning is primarily because I would much rather replace the head unit when I want an upgrade as opposed to replacing the entire system, and secondly I don't trust how hot all in one receivers get within such a small enclosure. I really just want something to decode encoded sound formats like Dolby Atmos. Does anyone have a recommendation for a head unit?
Click to expand...

Back when I was really into HT, I did use a pre/pro and separate amps to get the dynamics I wanted. If you're serious about it, it's the only way to go. I think Marantz is still releasing top shelf pre/pros with Atmos. They are pricey, but the good stuff always is.

Cheers
 
Grenadeslio said:
As mentioned earlier, just look for a stand alone surround processor. Might as well go completely separates, why does it need or want to be stuffed into the preamp?
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Any separate surround processor will necessarily be used as a preamp, unless you're only interested in Pro-logic.
 
There are discontinued standalone/add-on processors that have discrete surround Dolby Digital and DTS, e.g. Technics SH-AC500, but I've not seen one that incorporates the newer/current features.

Those add on processors can be sorta a PITA to use if the receiver doesn't have multichannel connections. It can be done, did it for some time, but inconvenient.
 
Grenadeslio said:
All of my surround systems have incorporated separate power amps, a preamp, and a separate surround processor as does my current.

My center channel even has its own stereo amp bridged mono for 300watts. My front mains have a 400watt amp, the rears 150 per channel, and twin 12" powered subs connected in stereo round out the equation.

But here's the thing, my 2 channel music listening has always been paramount so having the newest and coolest surround formats haven't been a requirement. So much so that I have another complete 2 channel system sharing only the same preamp and space (media rm).
Click to expand...
I like having a separate amp on my center channel. My Sony STR-G3 serves that purpose and I'm not sure if it can be bridged or not, but I have thought about it. What do you use for a center speaker? It must be a beast.
 
Can't be bridged...there would be nothing to bridge it with since it's just a single center channel output.

I had a STR-G3 that I left with an ex GF. She HATED the egg remote. Have to admit it was a cool concept but sorta flakey.
 
whoaru99 said:
Can't be bridged...there would be nothing to bridge it with since it's just a single center channel output.

I had a STR-G3 that I left with an ex GF. She HATED the egg remote. Have to admit it was a cool concept but sorta flakey.
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That does make sense and I think that's why I didn't pursue it further.

I don't have the remote (I doubt I would like it either). Thought about doing the IR hack but don't trust myself to do it. Works well for a separate center channel amp since it's really good for nothing else and is serving the purpose until a better replacement to drive the center channel comes my way.

I've read with using a separate amp for center channel, it's best to at least be double wattage of the main avr that the fronts and surrounds are connected to, is this true?
 
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Can't think of a reason why you would need more power for the center than for the mains, unless maybe the sensitivity was much less and you needed a bunch more power to "keep up".

The sensitivity of all my HT speakers is similar. In my "big" system I run equal power across the fronts & center and a bit more than half (60%) of that much power to the surround and back channels.
 
whoaru99 said:
Can't think of a reason why you would need more power for the center than for the mains, unless maybe the sensitivity was much less and you needed a bunch more power to "keep up".

The sensitivity of all my HT speakers is similar. In my "big" system I run equal power across the fronts & center and a bit more than half (60%) of that much power to the surround and back channels.
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Well my Sony is more power than the Onkyo and my thought was if I were to have an external amp with equal power for the center it would be pointless, so to get the dialog I'm looking for, power for the center speaker would have to be more and not equal.
 
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