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SX-880 relay clicking with change in home lighting

mordechai

mordechai

New Member
Hey everyone, new to the AK forum.

I've owned a beautiful sx-880 for about 10 years. I recently moved to an off-grid home (panels, batteries, schneider inverter...the whole bit). It's a high end off-grid system and literally every electronic device in my home works flawlessly, including laptops, screens...everything).

That is, except my sx-880. It is driving me mad! The relay clicks on and off when the lighting in the house changes. Girlfriend turns on a light in the kitchen...clicking. Living room light dims...clicking. You name it. I can't narrow it down to a specific light, but it is clear that the change in lights is causing it. Reverse the change, and clicking stops.

The lights are LEDs on dimmer switches. I've tried power conditioners and line filters -- didn't work. I had the sx-880 professionally serviced last month -- didn't work, nor could he reproduce the problem plugged into his on-grid workshop.

If I plug the unit into a generator, clicking stops. Pretty clear something up with the home power and/or lights the old girl doesn't like.

I really love the unit and am loathe to replace it. Can anyone suggest anything?
 
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hang a voltmeter on the unswitched outlet.

protect is based on a pa3004 chip, which has several inputs, including one that monitors the AC line off of a transformer secondary.

once the light is changed, and nothing else is changed, is it just a single click (and does it last the appropriate timing interval?) or a continuing series of clicks? And how fast?

it may be necessary to (try) send more AC to that circuit by reducing R403 from 1 meg, to 470k or even down to 100k.

it's easy to find, right next to pins 70 & 71 on the main board.
 
Hey Mark, thanks for the response.

I used a multimeter which says my power is a consistent 116V. Once in a while it may vary from 115.8 - 116.3, but generally stable, whether lights are on, off or dimmed.

The relay clicks repeatedly, but the frequency varies. It never seems to wait longer than 1 second to go into protect once it starts, although sometimes it is more rapid than others. I can change the interval by changing the dim level of the lights.

I found pins 70 & 71, but am not sure what is R403 or how to reduce the AC...I've never fixed anything like this before.

Thanks for the help!!

IMG_2792.jpg
 
important question: how long does it take from the relay opening up, to when it closes. should be the time delay time.

any shorter is a weak driver transistor. Q37 2sc1885.

btw:
upload_2022-8-11_0-17-46.png
 
markthefixer said:
important question: how long does it take from the relay opening up, to when it closes. should be the time delay time.

any shorter is a weak driver transistor. Q37 2sc1885.

btw:
View attachment 2636412
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks Mark! I’m not sure exactly what the “time delay time” is, but guessing that is the default, which might be the usual delay from when I turn on the unit until the first click? If so, it certainly opens and closes more rapidly than that sometimes. Not every time.

Follow up question: if it is a weak driver transistor, what about the change in lights in the house is causing it? And why is there no issue when connected to a power source such as my generator or an on-grid home?
 
mordechai said:
And why is there no issue when connected to a power source such as my generator or an on-grid home?
Click to expand...

Probably because your generator`s output is delivering some value closer to 120v than 116v, that inverter is outputting..
Can the inverter`s AC output voltage be adjusted upwards to some value higher than 116 volts ?

Might be a symptom of the inverter`s VA capacity that`s being used too close to its max output rating, thus dropping it`s output to the value you`re measuring, in which is of my opinion, is bordering on the low side for that receivers liking.

You can look into purchasing a 15 amp Tripp-Lite brand AC voltage regulator, as a option for the receiver to plug into. I`ve been using them here for over 30 yrs, and work very well, especially when I`m on my whole house generator when the grid fails for whatever reason..

Just a thought, mordechai.
 
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Bill Ferris said:
Probably because your generator`s output is delivering some value closer to 120v than 116v, that inverter is outputting..
Can the inverter`s AC output voltage be adjusted upwards to some value higher than 116 volts ?

Might be a symptom of the inverter`s VA capacity that`s being used too close to its max output rating, thus dropping it`s output to the value you`re measuring, in which is of my opinion, is bordering on the low side for that receivers liking.

You can look into purchasing a 15 amp Tripp-Lite brand AC voltage regulator, as a option for the receiver to plug into. I`ve been using them here for over 30 yrs, and work very well, especially when I`m on my whole house generator when the grid fails for whatever reason..

Just a thought, mordechai.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Bill.

I will check with my solar contractor about adjusting the inverter output. I actually purchased this voltage regulator:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00009RA60?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

But it didn't help. And I am expecting this Tripp-lite to arrive in the mail today:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00006B83G?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Would you expect different results between the two regulators?
 
mordechai said:
Thanks, Bill.

I will check with my solar contractor about adjusting the inverter output. I actually purchased this voltage regulator:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00009RA60?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

But it didn't help. And I am expecting this Tripp-lite to arrive in the mail today:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00006B83G?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Would you expect different results between the two regulators?
Click to expand...

I only use a very early model of the 600 watt Tripp-Lite for my RS spare bedroom`s stereo receiver, that`s never powered down, but it only is used for all day back ground music listening levels and is never cranked up..
The receiver is rated and confirmed by me to be able to deliver 100 wpc.
And if it was ever going to be cranked up I would change out the 600 watt Trip-Lite to a 15 amp rated one for the better capacity headroom to handle the much greater current draw when the receiver is played much louder than it is now.

I have the greatest confidence in my multiple use of both the 15 amp (1800 watt) and 20 amp (3300 watt) rated Tripp-Light brand AVRs that are used around my house for over 30 yrs.
I personally think you should have ordered the 15 amp (1800 watt) version instead of the 600 watt (5 amp) rated Tripp-Lite one, but I`m of the school of thought that "I would rather have more than I need, and not need it, verses need more than I have and not have it ("AKA POWER HEADROOM".
The 15 amp version will run much cooler and last longer an should provide better dynamic AC performance for your receiver, especially when you wish to crank it up.
I have no experience with APC products other then their UPSs that have built in AVRs, but no stand alone AVRs, not saying that their no very good products, just I have no direct experience outside my quite satisfactory use of their UPSs for about 15 yrs.
 
Bill Ferris said:
I only use a very early model of the 600 watt Tripp-Lite for my RS spare bedroom`s stereo receiver, that`s never powered down, but it only is used for all day back ground music listening levels and is never cranked up..
The receiver is rated and confirmed by me to be able to deliver 100 wpc.
And if it was ever going to be cranked up I would change out the 600 watt Trip-Lite to a 15 amp rated one for the better capacity headroom to handle the much greater current draw when the receiver is played much louder than it is now.

I have the greatest confidence in my multiple use of both the 15 amp (1800 watt) and 20 amp (3300 watt) rated Tripp-Light brand AVRs that are used around my house for over 30 yrs.
I personally think you should have ordered the 15 amp (1800 watt) version instead of the 600 watt (5 amp) rated Tripp-Lite one, but I`m of the school of thought that "I would rather have more than I need, and not need it, verses need more than I have and not have it ("AKA POWER HEADROOM".
The 15 amp version will run much cooler and last longer an should provide better dynamic AC performance for your receiver, especially when you wish to crank it up.
I have no experience with APC products other then their UPSs that have built in AVRs, but no stand alone AVRs, not saying that their no very good products, just I have no direct experience outside my quite satisfactory use of their UPSs for about 15 yrs.
Click to expand...

Got it. I will see if the one I ordered makes any difference played at low volume and if it does I'll get the bigger one.
 
Os as kinda suggested go with an apc, a little larger. Batteries can be found so check thrifts etc. Btw by apc I mean battery back up usually used with computers.
 
Bill Ferris said:
Very well then, Sir.

Good luck with it, and keep us informed of the results from the AVR implementation, mordechai.
Click to expand...

Well the Tripp-lite didn't help at all...

My solar installer is coming over today with an adjustable auto-transformer so we can test with 120V before tweaking the entire system. Will keep everyone posted!
 
I have no advice but am following this with interest. I am hopefully going to be buying my own place in the next few years and would love to start playing with solar/off grid stuff assuming there are still incentives in place then.

Where are you located? If you're close to me, I could loan you a double conversion UPS to try; I actually have had one on my "good" stereo for years. It's an old Tripp-Lite rack mount unit that I took the stock fan out and put a Noctua quiet fan and thermostatic control in, otherwise same as out of the box. Been working great for me, I've actually now replaced the batteries twice in the one unit, that's how long I've had them up and running.
 
N8Nagel said:
I have no advice but am following this with interest. I am hopefully going to be buying my own place in the next few years and would love to start playing with solar/off grid stuff assuming there are still incentives in place then.

Where are you located? If you're close to me, I could loan you a double conversion UPS to try; I actually have had one on my "good" stereo for years. It's an old Tripp-Lite rack mount unit that I took the stock fan out and put a Noctua quiet fan and thermostatic control in, otherwise same as out of the box. Been working great for me, I've actually now replaced the batteries twice in the one unit, that's how long I've had them up and running.
Click to expand...

Well it's a longshot, but worth a try! Southern Vermont. And you?
 
mordechai said:
Well the Tripp-lite didn't help at all...

My solar installer is coming over today with an adjustable auto-transformer so we can test with 120V before tweaking the entire system. Will keep everyone posted!
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that the 600 watt Tripp-Lite didn`t work out, mordechai !

Did you by chance happen to look at/measure the regulated AC voltage output of the 600 watt Tripp-Lite AVR with your receiver plugged into it, and powered up ?

Just curious.
Yes, do let us know what the installer discovers..
In my opinion, your 116.v AC mains is low, and I would think should be higher, at least 120v +/- a volt depending on your household load.
I have zero experience with solar, battery, inverter house powering systems, though I have a good understanding how the systems operate.
 
Well, the auto-transformer didn't work. We adjusted the output to a clean and stable 120V, but as soon as those LED's on dimmer's get switched on, the relay starts clicking. Arghh!!!! We even piggybacked the auto-transformer to the Tripp-lite regulator to the APC and finally to the receiver. It was as if the receiver was plugged right into the wall. No change whatsoever.

Next idea is to get an oscilloscope and see what if any noise there is. Does anyone have a recommendation on which one to get?
 
I suspect the LED dimmers are putting control codes on the powerline that are driving the pa3004 bonkers through it's ac input.
 
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