T-amp recommendations

[bare]

A little 'caution' Kids.
Tripath dissapeared in 2006(?) There are now, judging by the number of Chinese products on the market Thousands if not multiples of, MORE Tripath Chips currently about that Tripath had ...absolutely Nothing ..to do with.
I've had 3 Ta 2020 amps die.. for no apparent reason, but all 3 did so ..exactly.. the same, they lost their left channel. Just stopped and won't come back.
Coincidence? Unlikely
I ordered from Arjen Helder (google) a pair of 'guaranteed Genuine' Ta 2020 chips. Received ones with Gold plated pins. Clearly Not Tripath original product.. but cheap/crap Fakes ... Lovely.

Too much agro to bother to chase the Twerp for a refund.
But Take this as warning

 

[rhing]

A little 'caution' Kids.
Tripath dissapeared in 2006(?) There are now, judging by the number of Chinese products on the market Thousands if not multiples of, MORE Tripath Chips currently about that Tripath had ...absolutely Nothing ..to do with.
I've had 3 Ta 2020 amps die.. for no apparent reason, but all 3 did so ..exactly.. the same, they lost their left channel. Just stopped and won't come back.
Coincidence? Unlikely
I ordered from Arjen Helder (google) a pair of 'guaranteed Genuine' Ta 2020 chips. Received ones with Gold plated pins. Clearly Not Tripath original product.. but cheap/crap Fakes ... Lovely.

Too much agro to bother to chase the Twerp for a refund.
But Take this as warning

I bought one of Arjen Helder's TA2020 MkIII amps, and although it sounds good, the SMSL SA-S1 TA2020 amp I just bought sounds smoother. He really doesn't provide much support.

As for Tripath-based amps, you bring up a good and probably valid point. The Tripath chips are most likely gray/black market products coming from the Asian semiconductor foundry that made the original Tripath chips. I think as long as one doesn't invest a fortune in a T-amp, they can be really fun for tinkering and getting high end audio sound quality at extremely reasonable prices.

That said, I have had two TA2024-based T-amps (SI 5065 Gen 2 and Sure TA2024) and two TA2020 T-amps (Helder and SMSL), and all still work and sound well. I also had a Virtue Audio Two T-amp for a short time too and had fun with it, but decided that I like tube amps and the single-chip, lower power T-amps for the majority of my music listening.

 

[JoeDotCom]

Another cool thing. The Sure used with the Squeezebox gves me remote control capabilities. We live in amazing audio times.

cubdog

Yes, you gotta love having a little remote volume control in the signal path.

 

[cubdog]

A little 'caution' Kids.
Tripath dissapeared in 2006(?) There are now, judging by the number of Chinese products on the market Thousands if not multiples of, MORE Tripath Chips currently about that Tripath had ...absolutely Nothing ..to do with.
I've had 3 Ta 2020 amps die.. for no apparent reason, but all 3 did so ..exactly.. the same, they lost their left channel. Just stopped and won't come back.
Coincidence? Unlikely
I ordered from Arjen Helder (google) a pair of 'guaranteed Genuine' Ta 2020 chips. Received ones with Gold plated pins. Clearly Not Tripath original product.. but cheap/crap Fakes ... Lovely.

Too much agro to bother to chase the Twerp for a refund.
But Take this as warning

But as I pointed out my Scythe amp has a Yamaha chip and my Shure is another variation of Tripath. I have another amp that uses National Semiconductor chips. All three are the equal if not superior to my Tripath amps. Today's chip amps are better and more varied than ever. However as with anything we must choice wisely to be rewarded.

cubdog

 

[sempai]

Just received my S.M.S.L. SA-S1 TA2020 amp and power supply from the S.M.S.L. auction store, and I have say that I am impressed with this diminutive amp driving my upgraded Klipsch Forte II's. Straight out of the box, this amp is smoother sounding and more tonally balanced than my modified Sonic Impact 5065 T-amp (gen 2 SI T-amp). The low end is fuller, the midrange is fuller and the highs don't have that odd bright character that some T-amps can have. I chose this model because it has air core inductors on the output filter leading to the speaker outputs. Supposedly, the air core inductors can provide a smoother, more relaxed sound, and this is what I'm getting.

There has been some buzz recently on some of the German audiophile sites about the SMSL SA S3 2021B.
Out of curiosity I ordered one and have been listening to it for 2 weeks now.
100+ hours to burn in, and they sound smoother.

I am blown away by the 3D soundstage and massive headroom I am getting. Like a very good SET amp.
The (very mild) upper mid harshness on my Altec Model 14's that had been annoying me recently is gone.
Tonality is full and rich, and nicely balanced.

SMSL uses quality components (Rubycon, Alps ect.. ) and their amps are very solidly constructed.

Truthfully, my (formerly) beloved Quad monoblocks are inching closer to craigslist every day.

I am astounded at the quality of sound from this inexpensive little amp.

Art

 

[Poultrygeist]

I thought my Sure in post 37 was close to SET standards until I recently did an A/B with the 2a3 Bottleheads. It wasn't that close.

 

[sempai]

I thought my Sure in post 37 was close to SET standards until I recently did an A/B with the 2a3 Bottleheads. It wasn't that close.

Speaker matching seems to be key as well.
As well the SMSL t amps seem to be a cut above the run of the mill.

I wasn't kidding when I said my Quad's are inching their way out the door.

Art

 

[rhing]

I now have about 20-30 hours play time on my SMSL SA-S1 TA-2020 amp. I've found a couple issues with the amp:

1. At low volume with knob starting at 6 o'clock up to 7 o'clock, the left channel is stronger than the right channel. I contacted SMSL about it and they are sending me a replacement Alps volume pot. They would've sent me a replacement unit, but I told them if they sent me a replacement pot, I'd install it myself. A buddy of mine recently bought the same amp and he does not have this problem with his. My unit may be an anomaly.

2. By now, the stock ERO MKT1813 caps should be settling in. Everything is fine except the treble is a bit too hot for my tastes. It's not grainy, but it is strident and can cause listener fatigue quite quickly. As a quickie experiment, I wrapped the leads of a pair of Sonicap Gen 2 0.01uF caps to the MKT1813 cap as bypass caps. This really smoothed out the high frequency tilt and allowed more midrange and bass energy and detail through. It actually created greater warmth and soundstage depth similar to a tube amp. At the same time, I heard some odd phase-shifts in the midrange where vocal imaging became blurred. The articulation was fine, but the vocals and parts of the midrange seemed out of phase. I guess that's why some people don't like bypassing caps in signal paths. Nonetheless, this was a great exercise, because I was able to determine that the tonal imbalance with the stock amp lies with the stock ERO MKT1813 input caps. I will order a pair of Mundorf Mcap MKP 2.2uF metallized Polypropylene caps to replace the ERO MKT caps. I've used these before in modifying an Anthem EL84 integrated amp, and I believe the change will be for the better. The Mundorf Mcaps are probably the only decent audio grade Polypropylene film caps that will fit inside the SA-S1's small chassis.

Down the road, I may also lightly modify the output filter network by replacing a few of the 0.47uF film caps with 0.22uF Wima MKS or MKP film caps for matching the amp's output to my 8 ohm Klipsch Forte II speakers.

All that said, I still really like the SMSL T-amp and being a DIYer, I think I can get a lot more out of this amp with a few minor changes. Will it ever match my tube amps? No, but it is still capable of producing great sound at a low price.

 

[atarione]

There has been some buzz recently on some of the German audiophile sites about the SMSL SA S3 2021B.
Out of curiosity I ordered one and have been listening to it for 2 weeks now.
100+ hours to burn in, and they sound smoother.

I am blown away by the 3D soundstage and massive headroom I am getting. Like a very good SET amp.
The (very mild) upper mid harshness on my Altec Model 14's that had been annoying me recently is gone.
Tonality is full and rich, and nicely balanced.

SMSL uses quality components (Rubycon, Alps ect.. ) and their amps are very solidly constructed.

Truthfully, my (formerly) beloved Quad monoblocks are inching closer to craigslist every day.

I am astounded at the quality of sound from this inexpensive little amp.

Art

I have owned a SMSL SA-S3 for over a year...it is a nice sounding little t-amp, I really like mine very much.

 

[cubdog]

I now have about 20-30 hours play time on my SMSL SA-S1 TA-2020 amp. I've found a couple issues with the amp:

1. At low volume with knob starting at 6 o'clock up to 7 o'clock, the left channel is stronger than the right channel. I contacted SMSL about it and they are sending me a replacement Alps volume pot. They would've sent me a replacement unit, but I told them if they sent me a replacement pot, I'd install it myself. A buddy of mine recently bought the same amp and he does not have this problem with his. My unit may be an anomaly.

2. By now, the stock ERO MKT1813 caps should be settling in. Everything is fine except the treble is a bit too hot for my tastes. It's not grainy, but it is strident and can cause listener fatigue quite quickly. As a quickie experiment, I wrapped the leads of a pair of Sonicap Gen 2 0.01uF caps to the MKT1813 cap as bypass caps. This really smoothed out the high frequency tilt and allowed more midrange and bass energy and detail through. It actually created greater warmth and soundstage depth similar to a tube amp. At the same time, I heard some odd phase-shifts in the midrange where vocal imaging became blurred. The articulation was fine, but the vocals and parts of the midrange seemed out of phase. I guess that's why some people don't like bypassing caps in signal paths. Nonetheless, this was a great exercise, because I was able to determine that the tonal imbalance with the stock amp lies with the stock ERO MKT1813 input caps. I will order a pair of Mundorf Mcap MKP 2.2uF metallized Polypropylene caps to replace the ERO MKT caps. I've used these before in modifying an Anthem EL84 integrated amp, and I believe the change will be for the better. The Mundorf Mcaps are probably the only decent audio grade Polypropylene film caps that will fit inside the SA-S1's small chassis.

Down the road, I may also lightly modify the output filter network by replacing a few of the 0.47uF film caps with 0.22uF Wima MKS or MKP film caps for matching the amp's output to my 8 ohm Klipsch Forte II speakers.

All that said, I still really like the SMSL T-amp and being a DIYer, I think I can get a lot more out of this amp with a few minor changes. Will it ever match my tube amps? No, but it is still capable of producing great sound at a low price.

Pretty cool. I wish I had the talent to do mods like that. Or any mods at all.

cubdog

 

[rhing]

If you watch a few YouTube videos on soldering RCA connectors on interconnects and try it out on your own, you can learn to solder and then start attacking simple projects like upgrading components on existing electronics like T-amps. T-amp are good projects for developing DIY skills because they run on 12-14V, they're relatively inexpensive and they sound good enough to discern improvements or degradation of sound quality when experimenting with components like caps and resistors. My modded SI 5065 Gen 2 TA2024 amp was my second or third DIY project, and it still sounds great. I've since refurbished and modified tube amps, CD players, speakers and turntables. It all started with making some DIY interconnects watching YouTube basic soldering videos.

 

[cubdog]

Trust me. You don't want me anywhere near a soldering iron.

cubdog

 

[cubdog]

I'm trying out the little Sure amp with headphones and a cheap little CDP. Sounds damn nice if again a little on the bright side. I need to try them with my modded Fostex cans that I have never cared for. They need power, maybe this will do the trick. I may also try sticking my little Fiio E6 between the amp and headphones to see if I can EQ the sound. All in all I'm again astounded at the value of these little $30 amps.

cubdog

 

[prighello]

I now have about 20-30 hours play time on my SMSL SA-S1 TA-2020 amp. I've found a couple issues with the amp.

Rich, you nailed two of issues I noticed on my SA-S1. The channel balance issue, which I resolved by having SMSL send me a new amp, and the bright hi frequencies. My replacement amp is free of of the channel balance issue but it's still really bright IMO. Still a great amp though. I'm curious to hear how changing the caps addresses this. Let us know.

 

[rhing]

Rich, you nailed two of issues I noticed on my SA-S1. The channel balance issue, which I resolved by having SMSL send me a new amp, and the bright hi frequencies. My replacement amp is free of of the channel balance issue but it's still really bright IMO. Still a great amp though. I'm curious to hear how changing the caps addresses this. Let us know.

Instead of having SMSL send me a new replacement unit, I just asked them to send me a new replacement volume pot. I will install it myself. The face plate opening for the volume pot is just large enough for the volume pot shaft to fit through. I'm going to ream out the opening, so I can better center the volume pot knob within the countersunk opening. I believe this will also relieve a little stress on the volume pot as well. I think the somewhat poor fit stresses the volume pot and causes some misalignment of the variable resistance elements in the pot.

As for the brightness, I did remove the temporary Sonicap 0.1uF bypass caps and I am listening to the SMSL amp in stock form again. The stock ERO MKT1813 caps seemed to have settled in a bit and smoothed out a little. However, some recordings can sound a bit bright and shrill like Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here." The Mundorf Mcap MKP caps (the lowest cost/smallest size film caps in their product line) has a slightly rolled off high end. Using the cap as a tone control to balance the hot highs, I'll remove the ERO MKT caps and replace them with the slightly larger Mundorf Mcaps. In comparison to MKT or metallized Polyester film caps like the ERO MKT1813 caps, I have found that Polypropylene caps, in general, present the midrange more naturally and a better overall tonal balance. In my experience, they also present a larger, deeper soundstage. In my Sonic Impact 5065 T-amp, I chose Axon MKP caps (same manufacturer as Solen) and the sound is quite warm and tuneful. The only problem is some slight midrange grain and edginess that is inherent with those caps.

Once I install the Mundorfs, I'll chime in again. I think these caps will really take this amp to another level.

 

[prighello]

I wonder if Audyns would fit in there? I used some 0.22uf Audyns in a speaker build and they were pretty small.

 

[rhing]

2.2uF metallized Polypropylene caps will be signficantly larger.

 

[rhing]

Back with an update. SMSL sent me a replacement volume pot. I thought the volume pot was an Alps RK097 volume pot, but it's a knock-off with the letters LJV on the back of the housing. I was a bit hesitant to install it thinking that I wanted a real Alps pot in there, but decided to install it anyway. Taking the original pot required patience using a solder wick and solder sucker to free up the volume pot leads from the PCB, but I managed to do it cleanly without damaging the board or myself. I soldered in the new volume pot and now the channel imbalance is gone.

I've got anywhere between 75 and 85 hours on this amp in stock form, and I have to say that the bright treble has settled down and the amp has become very tonally balanced. For what I paid for it, this amp really has no business sounding this good. The soundstage is large like my tube amps and the imaging is incredible. The separation between musicians is so well defined that everything has its own space. This is really obvious with orchestral music where each section is arranged. This came through beautifully on Paul Paray and the Detroit Symphony's performance of Ravel's "Rapsodie Espagnole" on Mecury Living Presence. The sound definitely extends beyond the physical boundaries of my Klispch Forte II's. The image density is thick, and although it's not on par with a tube amp in terms of bloom and a holographic presentation, it does other things well like PRaT and some micro details. A great test CD for this is Bebel Gilberto's "Tantotempo" modern Bossa Nova classic. The real kicker is the amp's smoothness on female vocals where some amps have problems with sibilance. Playing Patricia Barber's "Cafe Blue," the SMSL T-amp faithfully reproduced Barber's haunting screams on "Too Rich for My Blood" and Christina Aguilera belting out notes on Herbie Hancock's "Possibilities." The Hancock-Aguilera track has put many systems to shame on peaks that have driven many expensive amps and speakers to distortion.

My plan was to discard the budget-priced utilitarian ERO MKT1813 film caps and replace them with Mundorf Mcap Audiophiler MKP caps, but that plan is on hold. I'm just going to kick back, relax and enjoy the music.

 

[cubdog]

Thanks for the update. And now I'm again tempted to buy something I don't need. Thanks.

cubdog

 

[rhing]

With this amp in working stock form, I have to say the SMSL SA-S1 is an impressive little amplifier. At this point, I have no desire to change anything in the amp at all. I've got it connected to my Audio Research LS7 tube line stage and sitting on top of my Dynakit Stereo 35 power amp. The Dynakit still wins out, but not by as much as I expected.

As a standalone integrated amplifier, the SMSL amp does very well. It is warm., and the bass is very full and well defined as in floor-shaking. Keep in mind, I am using this amp with very efficient Klipsch Forte II speakers. I now understand why David Kan of Six Moons claimed that T-amps and Klipsch loudspeakers make a great match. It's more than just the efficiency of the Klipsch speakers, it's also that speakers like the Forte's and other larger Heritage series speakers can dig deep down into the 30Hz range to present a fuller, warmer sound with flea-powered amps like the T-amps. A buddy of mine has a pair of Altec Model 19's, and I'll have to bring this little amp to his home to try this combination.