CrSens
Super Member
Expensive taste, hard to achieve with a receiver
. Easier with amps, Au-717, 517 or at minimum 317.
Talk me out of a 8080 or 9090 please :-)
- Thread starter redondo2018
- Start date
. Easier with amps, Au-717, 517 or at minimum 317.
@ignoramustot, I have openly praised the 5000/A/X here many times before, the 5000 was the very model that started my Sansui obsession, circa 1978 when I was all of 4 years old. It's funny, after 27 years of being on this journey of collecting and restoring (mostly) Sansui gear, and having the privilege of owning some of the most legendary components they made, for pure listening pleasure I keep coming back around to the beginning, in finding the 5000 (and cap coupled sound in general) to be my preference. Maybe that's partly due to sentimentality and the early "imprinting" it's characteristic sound made on me, but I just really like it.
Now, that preference may not be by a huge margin versus other well known models, but when I listen to the 5000A, 2000X, 1000X or 350A I have here, they always hit the spot. I enjoy listening to other gear regularly as well, and have a large variety of choices that span 1965-85 from tube to X-balanced power amps and much in between. There is nothing Sansui made (that I own) that I dislike the sound of. I don't care at all for the BPC era rack stuff, but then I've never pursued any of that line.
For the purposes of the OP's original question, unless the intent is to try a direct coupled amp and assess how it sounds versus what he has already sampled, one could do a lot worse than a restored 5000X. At 55wpc, it has enough oomph to handle the job (most of the time) and is widely admired for it's sound.
If the price of a 9090DB or G9000 wasn't so stratospheric now, I'd be more inclined to give them a recommendation. But they are very costly to buy on a purely speculative basis, and will need work to get right anyway given their age. Then, if you end up underwhelmed, it was an expensive boondoggle to buy it. Sure, it can be resold, but that's just more work to (hopefully) recover ones investment.
In the end, this is really all so subjective that my (and anyone else's ramblings) would best be taken with a spoonful of salt.
Now, that preference may not be by a huge margin versus other well known models, but when I listen to the 5000A, 2000X, 1000X or 350A I have here, they always hit the spot. I enjoy listening to other gear regularly as well, and have a large variety of choices that span 1965-85 from tube to X-balanced power amps and much in between. There is nothing Sansui made (that I own) that I dislike the sound of. I don't care at all for the BPC era rack stuff, but then I've never pursued any of that line.
For the purposes of the OP's original question, unless the intent is to try a direct coupled amp and assess how it sounds versus what he has already sampled, one could do a lot worse than a restored 5000X. At 55wpc, it has enough oomph to handle the job (most of the time) and is widely admired for it's sound.
If the price of a 9090DB or G9000 wasn't so stratospheric now, I'd be more inclined to give them a recommendation. But they are very costly to buy on a purely speculative basis, and will need work to get right anyway given their age. Then, if you end up underwhelmed, it was an expensive boondoggle to buy it. Sure, it can be resold, but that's just more work to (hopefully) recover ones investment.
In the end, this is really all so subjective that my (and anyone else's ramblings) would best be taken with a spoonful of salt.
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Well, the 9090 isn't a huge fan of 4ohm loads, so that could be something to say to talk you out of it. But the CVs are so sensitive that it would probably be fine anyway ...
redondo2018
Active Member
yeah, I've certainly eyed those numerous times... maybe I should revisit...Expensive taste, hard to achieve with a receiver
Easier with amps, Au-717, 517 or at minimum 317.
redondo2018
Active Member
oh really? I guess I just ASSumed most TOTL 70's gear could handle 4ohms
CrSens
Super Member
But they also sound very different than the 60's and 70's Sansui receivers, more modern and contemporary, but in a good way (cleaner and smoother in treble in particular, if working correctly) and if the "vintage" sound (with character, or charm, whatever you can call it) is something you are after, they might not be a good match. Later AU series are also very clean sounding, but lose some of the warmth. In my opinion, the _17 series is a sweet spot.
redondo2018
Active Member
never even heard of a 7000...
grillebilly
Empty Head
Never had the pleasure of hearing a 5000x.
Testing a piece of gear without the benefit of comparing it in the same room with the same speakers, at the same time, is tough. It's only when I A/B gear can the subtle differences be discerned. It may be different, or easier, for others. The push of a button back and forth makes differences more readily recognized.
My favorite receiver for phono sections is going to get me in trouble with forum regulars
59volvo
Super Member
does the 7k sound more like the eight or the 5k?
I've recently been A/B comparing my 9090 with some of my other stereo gear. I have some of the same receivers as the OP. I've recently done direct comparisons between my 9090 and my Eight, AU-9900, AU-999, and AU-777. A note about condition, the Eight, AU-9900, AU-999, and AU-777 are all fully restored, while the 9090 has a restored driver board, and recapped power supply, so not completely restored.
When run flat (no tone controls or loudness), it's hard for me to hear the difference between these. They all sound quite similar, and I don't think I'd be able to tell one from another in a blind test. Only the Eight, 9090, and AU-777 have "Loudness" switches, and when engaging that, these do sound similar, but the 9090 is noticeably "brighter" or voiced higher with less "warmth" than either the AU-777 or the Eight. One can manipulate the tone controls to get the "Loudness" effect on AU-999 and AU-9900, but here it's very noticeable the 9090 is brighter.
So, if you are looking for a "warm" sound, I'd say the 9090 is not going to do it. For me, with many different music genres, the 9090 was a bit more pleasing to me with Loudness engaged. It's a punchy sound with good, solid bass, but also nice highs. However, some might find it too bright, and maybe a tad "harsh"? Don't know. The sound has not annoyed me, but I can definitely tell it is brighter while still maintaining a good bass punch.
Hope that is of some value. My next comparisons will involve my unrestored 5000X.
When run flat (no tone controls or loudness), it's hard for me to hear the difference between these. They all sound quite similar, and I don't think I'd be able to tell one from another in a blind test. Only the Eight, 9090, and AU-777 have "Loudness" switches, and when engaging that, these do sound similar, but the 9090 is noticeably "brighter" or voiced higher with less "warmth" than either the AU-777 or the Eight. One can manipulate the tone controls to get the "Loudness" effect on AU-999 and AU-9900, but here it's very noticeable the 9090 is brighter.
So, if you are looking for a "warm" sound, I'd say the 9090 is not going to do it. For me, with many different music genres, the 9090 was a bit more pleasing to me with Loudness engaged. It's a punchy sound with good, solid bass, but also nice highs. However, some might find it too bright, and maybe a tad "harsh"? Don't know. The sound has not annoyed me, but I can definitely tell it is brighter while still maintaining a good bass punch.
Hope that is of some value. My next comparisons will involve my unrestored 5000X.
@KeithD, I'd say that lines up with my own experience on the way the 9090DB (and QRX-9001) generally sounds relative to the older (than the 9090DB) gear I run. It isn't a huge difference, but compared to cap coupled designs of 1968-72 there is a slight detecable change. Kind of an small evolutionary step in the development of the Sansui sound. The jump to the G9000 is probably a bit more noticeable than that, and the next significant change would've been the super feed forward design amps which I've had only limited exposure to, and of which I don't presently own any.
I can get the sound I want out of a 9090DB with some minor tweaking, but the further I go into Sansui's advancement of amp technology, I find they start to lose a bit more of the characteristic sound I enjoy most. Not enough to make them not to my liking, but a noticeable change. The X balanced series is as far as I've progressed to date (1984-1985 models). I've kicked around buying a later alpha to satisfy my curiosity to compare, but haven't made the commitment of funds yet as it represents a substantial investment.
I can get the sound I want out of a 9090DB with some minor tweaking, but the further I go into Sansui's advancement of amp technology, I find they start to lose a bit more of the characteristic sound I enjoy most. Not enough to make them not to my liking, but a noticeable change. The X balanced series is as far as I've progressed to date (1984-1985 models). I've kicked around buying a later alpha to satisfy my curiosity to compare, but haven't made the commitment of funds yet as it represents a substantial investment.
I've never heard the Eight or 5000X, always wanted to though. I can only say that the 7000 was made after the Eight. Also, the 5000X was in the same brochure as the 7000, with the 7000 advertised as the TOTL in same brochure.
redondo2018
Active Member
yeah, looked it up after it was mentioned, but had never heard of it before today - seems like it might have only been a military-only or special order model or something?
The 8080 and 9090 receivers are far easier to service than the db versions, relatively speaking. I find their sound hits a sweet spot for day long background listening and look good doing so. All of them will need work at this point due to internal components aging so keep that in mind unless you are able to do so yourself as finding a tech to work on them is getting harder by the day due to the time and complexity required to do the job right.
Addressing the reliability concern, I have two 8080db's, one I restored about seven years ago that is used all day most every day in my study, the only issue in that period of time is remembering to work the buttons and switches once in a while just to keep things working without any static. The second I really went to town on last year with lots of tasty cap type changes both in composition and capacity trying to wring the most out of the old gal including upgrading the main supply caps. I have that unit driving HPM 100's in the shop and she can holler louder than heck when needed, neither unit runs hot or mis-behaves.
As I age the ears are not as discerning as they used to be but eyes are still pretty sharp, the xoxo series are a pleasure to behold 50 years after they were designed and would make a statement piece in most vintage collections.
Addressing the reliability concern, I have two 8080db's, one I restored about seven years ago that is used all day most every day in my study, the only issue in that period of time is remembering to work the buttons and switches once in a while just to keep things working without any static. The second I really went to town on last year with lots of tasty cap type changes both in composition and capacity trying to wring the most out of the old gal including upgrading the main supply caps. I have that unit driving HPM 100's in the shop and she can holler louder than heck when needed, neither unit runs hot or mis-behaves.
As I age the ears are not as discerning as they used to be but eyes are still pretty sharp, the xoxo series are a pleasure to behold 50 years after they were designed and would make a statement piece in most vintage collections.
The Dolby board being the main (f)actor in raising the service difficulty level of the db receiver group. I did have a thing for the differences in the 990db design compared to the 9090db. It was hard for me to let it go.
I would agree with that analysis. I too have never ventured beyond the Sansui G8000 (except for some 80's BPC), and the difference in sound characteristics between it and the 9090db was noticeable. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the G8000 but the 9090db, 7070 and the 7000 seemed to similarly have a "warmer" more pleasing tone to my ears. I guess one could say the sound was more "tubelike".
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jayvis
Addicted Member
There sure is a lot of supposed preference for a "warmer" and "tubelike" sound. I know that I went through that stage for a while as I grappled with vintage stuff about 20 years ago. I finally got over it once I admitted to myself that I'd never heard a live performance other than small acoustic performances that exemplified that "warm" sound. It was at that time that I realized, at least to me, that that warmer tubelike sound wasn't really natural and actually put a veil over the music that I listened to the most. That was when I started searching for a more balanced sound that more closely matched what I experienced at enjoyable live performances. I guess I'll call that sound more "neutral", and that's where I'm at today.
BushmasterM4
Well-Known Member
I bought my 9090db back in 2005 or 2006. Not exactly sure (old age memory). I paid around $400 if I remember correctly. I then bought a 5000a about a year later. I now own four 5000's, which are backups for when the 9090db goes out (knock on wood). While they lack the wattage the 9090db does, 50ish watts is plenty loud enough. And sound wise, they are right on par with the 9090db. I do not hear much difference. I like the 9090db better because of the EQ section on the 9090db. But I would be completely happy with just a 5000 series.