Tape Deck Question

[budkor]

Hi All

My question regarding tape decks is whether they actually offer decent HiFi quality in sonic reproduction terms. The question might sound so stupid, but I have never owned any kind of tape decks in my life, and always used to think that tapes are finished medium for HiFi. They are dull and mushy in audio reproduction. They stretch through time distorting and changing original recordings.

But that could be just my preconception - maybe wrong or right. I am also putting the question in this forum rather than Tape forum in case I will get shredded to pieces by die-hard tape deck users. So this question is a bit politically sensitive too.

This question rose to me recently because I have a few amps, tuners, record decks and speakers made in 1970s and works great, so why shouldn't tape desks. But because of the media, which they use is magnetic tape - fragile and limited it looks. But there seem to be a few deck users - my question was are they really using them for sonic excellence or just for visual satisfaction (chrome and wood bodied boxes with huge VU meters)

Could we get some feedback from the tape deck owners and users?

Thanks

 

[Jon_Logan]

there's a wide range of quality decks out there. You really can't go wrong with a Tandberg or Nakamichi. In good shape, these decks will get you wider frequency response than FM. A top 3-head machine might have slightly better frequency response than a CD.. I agree with you that many decks sound mushy. Not all, though. They must be well maintained to have consistent performance.

 

[AK 47]

I have a Technics RS 276 US cassette deck (which was TOL when made, but there are many more decks that are surperior), and I enjoy the sound of my many (classical) pre recorded tapes more that many of my CD's. The base seems to have more oomph and the mids an highs seem warmer and more natural. Chuck

 

[kermit z]

The great thing about cassette decks is the relatively cheap price to try it out. Tapes can sound really good on a nicely cleaned up model. Also, Reel to Reel playes will give you some incredible sound as well. Give it a try

 

[ke4mcl]

cassettes can sound real good if recorded properly. reels where staple in recording studios until recently. trouble with tape machines is theres just soo much to go wrong.. belts, bias tuning, head wear, media, etc.

i love tape and have a closet full of reels i recorded but pro digital recorders are just too easy.

 

[donberry]

People who have not listened to a good tape deck in a while tend to forget how good they can be. I have had a few people seemingly stunned that they were listening to a cassette. You need to get a decent deck, I happen to have a CT-F1000 but there are many nice ones out there. Also, imo, forget about pre-recorded tapes. I have never heard a good one. I think of them now the same as mp3's - ok for easy listening, but if I am doing serious listening, no way am I using a pre-recorded tape.
Problem I have found is getting the cassettes. No more walking into the local walmart and picking up some Maxell high bias tapes (or TDK). All they sell anymore is the normal bias tapes. If you want high bias, seems mail order is about it.

I personally like cassettes better then most of my cd's. BUT, I am sure that is because I do not have a great cd player, but, cassette is analog, no converting here.
And on a good recording with a good tape, hiss can be very minimal.
I would recommend a tape deck with 3 heads, a bias control and a tape/source selector so you can monitor the actual recording. The CT-F1000, along with others I am sure, also gives you a test frequency to calibrate your tapes.......
Cassette decks get discounted very quickly by many people, but I have seen a few of those same people quite surprised when they found out they were listening to a cassette -

oh, one thing about cassettes too is their longevity. I must admit I did not take the best care of my cd's, but I would imagine most people have cd's that skip or will not even play anymore - I am still listening to cassettes that I recorded in Germany in 1978-1980 - and all of them sound great except for one of them does have one spot in it that is about 2 seconds long that is messed up - I did happen to record those on a CT-F1000 and while not the same deck, is what I am using now so maybe that is why they still sound as good - but I doubt a cd would have taken the beating and abuse these cassettes have and still work.

 

[wilkes85]

cassettes are dull and mushy in audio reproduction? You must have been listening to the wrong tape deck lol

 

[PacificStereo]

Well, good tape is just that. Good. Consider that until just a few years ago, everything you have ever heard was done on tape.

Longevity is another interesting topic. I just stumbled across a recording I made over 21 years ago that I forgot about. Not only does it sound great, it sounds exactly the same as the day I made it.

Good tape, whether it be cassette or open reel can be some of the most satisfying audio you will ever experience.

 

[db297]

Get yourself an Akai GX-635D, or GX-636D, or GX-747, use good tape, and you'll get the best possible recording you can get. A good 635D can be had for $500 on Ebay.
db

 

[terra1]

I have never owned any kind of tape decks in my life, and always used to think that tapes are finished medium for HiFi. They are dull and mushy in audio reproduction. They stretch through time distorting and changing original recordings.

But that could be just my preconception - maybe wrong or right.

To paraphrase your signature: Your Perception is only as good as your Experience.

I have 30 year old tape that still sound great. While the LPs themselves have warped or scratched. Come to think of it, even CDs scratch. Thank god for the tape archive.

Plus even some old masters of classics have been lost or destroyed and the only decent sounding "original" masters are no longer available on CD. And from the fallout of the loudness wars, some CDs may not sound as smooth as the tapes.

 

[Jon_Logan]

If you're going to spend something like a Nakamichi's. I've worked for a Warranty station for Nak and many other brands and the Nak's just aligned consistently, unless something was worn. Other machines, especially R/P combo 3-head machines, just didn't do nearly as well. Generally speaking, you could always get better w&f, frequency response, distortion, everything on a Nak. Tandbergs were competitors, but had the idiocyncrasies. Revox too.

Denons, Sony's, HK's, Yamaha's, Kenwoods, etc can get close, but they just don't get there in frequency response, or tape path stability. The old dual capstan Naks has a tape pad lifter and guides. This made a very smooth tape path.

I mean, get what you want. If you want really great fidelity, at $500-ish (or less), I think Nak or a Tandberg, ReVox might be out there.

 

[budkor]

Wow...

is it really? What a revelation, if they are true. I will try to get a half decent tape deck, and see how they sound in the near future.

I used to think that tape deck users are after some kind of visual satisfaction from their vintage decks with a couple of huge wheels - they were reels, and huge VU meters, which looked like grandpa clocks. I thought to myself, the tapes decks - they are funny looking ornaments. People who collect them must be most weird folks on earth, because they can't be sounding that good. They use blooming magnetic tapes.

 

[AAA3330]

As far as serious listening on tape goes, IMHO an open reel deck just can't be beat. I have no beef against cassettes, as they can sound pretty good. Although my open reel machines are my favorites. I prefer them for recording of vinyl because they are analog. You could maybe try a less expensive quality 7" reel to reel deck to see how you like the format, as most hold their value fairly well. I love the open reel format. IMHO there is just nothing like it.

 

[goldear]

I just pulled out a cassette that I recorded almost 20 years ago. It surprised me just how good it sounded. I had forgotten just how good my system was back then.

The key with tape is that it really must be a great deck if you want great sound. And the machine must be in good condition, and needs to be in allignment. You will find a great divergence of opinions regarding what constitutes a great sounding deck as some people are far pickier than are others. If you want to be satisfied, I recommend that you only listen to the really picky crowd, and disregard opinions of people who listen on systems which may be vastly inferior to your own.

The best cassette decks (the top Naks, 3-head Tandbergs, Revoxes) can actually humble all but the best consumer R2Rs.

The best consumer R2Rs can be superb. But if you are picky about sound, then I recommend that you look at Revox, Tandberg R2Rs, or even top-end Sonys. If you want to get into pro machines, then Otaris are one great choice, if you can find one which is not worn-out.

 

[BrocLuno]

I've been playing with the medium since before I worked for Chess/Janus/GRT, back in the 1970's. I still have cassette and reel tapes from back in the day that play just fine. Try that with CD-R's or even rotating media. It's a very durable format, just like LPs. Different things will wipe out a tape, but sun in a window will melt an LP, so nothing is perfect?

The things about decks that get most folks are tape handeling - the tape path and if it's well controlled and whether the machine is aligned and calibrated. If so, you concerns are not too much to fret over. If it's a crappy machine and out of spec, well there you are

This question/thread can get a fuller discussion in the Tape Deck Forum, but the short answers are good design with DUAL CAPSTANS, properly calibrated Dolby (C or, even better S), and/or HX-Pro, and good tape

 

[titanstats]

Part of your perception is quite right -- cassettes can sound pretty poor for a variety of reasons. Bad recordings, poor quality tapes, bad/cheap decks, decks far out of spec -- the list goes on. That being said, a good recording on a good tape played back on a good deck can sound quite nice. The flip side is the most of the good decks are getting quite old now, and are pretty complex machines. There's an old thread on here somewhere by one of our resident tape machine experts that talks about just that. You can't expect an unrestored deck to sound as it should without a bunch of maintenance and replacement of anywhere from a few to many parts.

I still have a couple of nice decks hanging about, but for the life of me, can't really think of what to do with them. Sure, I still have many, many tapes from the good old days (and I will agree that a good tape will age better and take far more abuse than a CD!), but never really play them. I tend to have the music on another source already, if I like the recording, be it CD or FLAC. But YMMV, as with most other things.

 

[AnalogDigit]

there's a wide range of quality decks out there. You really can't go wrong with a Tandberg or Nakamichi. In good shape, these decks will get you wider frequency response than FM. A top 3-head machine might have slightly better frequency response than a CD.. I agree with you that many decks sound mushy. Not all, though. They must be well maintained to have consistent performance.

Aiwa decks from the F660 and up are very good quality and can be had for a very good price because they are overlooked.

 

[markn2wae]

My NAK LX-3 plays ANY tape well!

If you're going to spend something like a Nakamichi's. I've worked for a Warranty station for Nak and many other brands and the Nak's just aligned consistently, unless something was worn. Other machines, especially R/P combo 3-head machines, just didn't do nearly as well. Generally speaking, you could always get better w&f, frequency response, distortion, everything on a Nak. Tandbergs were competitors, but had the idiocyncrasies. Revox too.

Denons, Sony's, HK's, Yamaha's, Kenwoods, etc can get close, but they just don't get there in frequency response, or tape path stability. The old dual capstan Naks has a tape pad lifter and guides. This made a very smooth tape path.

I mean, get what you want. If you want really great fidelity, at $500-ish (or less), I think Nak or a Tandberg, ReVox might be out there.

I got an LX-3 at a garage sale several years ago, and except for a worn belt, it plays ANY cassette tape I put into it well.

Even tapes that lost their little pressure pads (Is it an urban myth that they use mouse "pelts" to make these? ) will play properly on the NAK.

Mark T.

 

[Dr. Music]

If I were the OP I would start combing the usual places - yard sales, GW, thrifts, ebay - for a well regarded name in audio and find a decent specimen to take home and experiment with. If you find you like the sound, upgrade to a deck well regarded by users here at AK. No disrespect to anyone, but if a fella is looking to try out the tape medium and has some doubts as to SQ, it isn't likely he will throw $500 at a tape deck without doing some auditioning of the format.

 

[chillwolf]

Like any other recorded medium, there are some casstte tapes that sound good and some that don't. I have some pre-recorded tapes that sound almost as good as an LP on my Onkyo cassette deck! When I get a belt kit for my Nak, they'll probably sound even better.