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Teac X7R Pinch Roller Issue?

Richiecee

Richiecee

Active Member
I hope everyone is staying safe! Anyway, I was making some new recordings and noticed on playback that I had drop outs which I incorrectly associated with a newly purchased tape. So, I decided to erase the tape the long way and start over only to hear and finally visualize the tape was falling out of of the tape path. I started to apply minor pressure to the pinch roller and sure enough the tape would moved outside the tape guide. I did purchase new pinch rollers about 4 years ago as I had this problem around that time as well.

I guess my question is what makes a pinch roller go bad? The rubber? The design which eventually wears out? My reason for asking is I see new rubber being sold on Ebay. You have to cut the old rubber off and attache the new rubber. Not hat bad of an expense as they are around $17 each. Then you have the polyurethane pinch rollers being sold by Athan for about $60 each. They claim their ball baring design is better than the original design and would last much longer. I also see some supposed original or NOS being sold as well. I do not mind spending the money just want to make the best decision possible.

A little history behind my deck. I inherited this from uncle around 5 years ago. I put some money into it such as buying a cleaner face plate, changed some of the knobs and purchased another unit just for the wood case as I was waiting a couple of years to find one. I then sold the 2nd unit. A great find was the cover which I found brand new on on Ebay .


Thanks
Rich
 
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Richiecee said:
I hope everyone is staying safe! Anyway, I was making some new recordings and noticed on playback that I had drop outs which I incorrectly associated with a newly purchased tape. So, I decided to erase the tape the long way and start over only to hear and finally visualize the tape was falling out of of the tape path. I started to apply minor pressure to the pinch roller and sure enough the tape would moved outside the tape guide. I did purchase new pinch rollers about 4 years ago as I had this problem around that time as well.

I guess my question is what makes a pinch roller go bad? The rubber? The design which eventually wears out? My reason for asking is I see new rubber being sold on Ebay. You have to cut the old rubber off and attache the new rubber. Not hat bad of an expense as they are around $17 each. Then you have the polyurethane pinch rollers being sold by Athan for about $60 each. They claim their ball baring design is better than the original design and would last much longer. I also see some supposed original or NOS being sold as well. I do not mind spending the money just want to make the best decision possible.

A little history behind my deck. I inherited this from uncle around 5 years ago. I put some money into it such as buying a cleaner face plate, changed some of the knobs and purchased another unit just for the wood case as I was waiting a couple of years to find one. I then sold the 2nd unit. A great find was the cover which I found brand new on on Ebay .


Thanks
Rich
Click to expand...

see pic below
 
It's likely the tape. Watch it as it unspools from supply reel. If you see it doing any gyrations or rippling, there it is. I inherited a shiite-load of tapes & a r2r from an uncle several years ago. While laid off, I proceeded to preview a bunch, many which were many decades old. You should've seen some of these, so wrinkled up they did the exact thing you describe, many totally unusable so I cut thru the slot on the reels with a razor knife, threw it all in plastic bags, fluffed it up- 5 bags of free packing material! Pinch rollers can deteriorate over time. If yours is still a bit soft & not too much oxide buildup, I'd run it. Drop of good oil on the axle shaft, yes.
 
Catmanboo said:
It's likely the tape. Watch it as it unspools from supply reel. If you see it doing any gyrations or rippling, there it is. I inherited a shiite-load of tapes & a r2r from an uncle several years ago. While laid off, I proceeded to preview a bunch, many which were many decades old. You should've seen some of these, so wrinkled up they did the exact thing you describe, many totally unusable so I cut thru the slot on the reels with a razor knife, threw it all in plastic bags, fluffed it up- 5 bags of free packing material! Pinch rollers can deteriorate over time. If yours is still a bit soft & not too much oxide buildup, I'd run it. Drop of good oil on the axle shaft, yes.
Click to expand...

I did oil it after that and treated the rubber. The tapes I am referring to are brand new. Still think it could be the tape? I git rid of many tapes from 20 years ago as they are a waste. thanks!
 
Brand new chronologically, or brand new appearing? Watch the tape as it goes through the tape transport. Still wandering off the beaten path? If any part of it is mis-aligned (unlikely, unless physically damaged , as in dropped or something), this may cause the problem. I wish I could i-ball it myself & help figure it out. Just a thought- see if you can check the angle of the pinch roller as it engages the capstan. Should have even contact as the 2 meet. If one side hits capstan before the other, correct that, it can cause problems like you describe.
 
Pinch rollers usually last much longer than 4 years. They eventually wear unevenly, or harden, but that can take decades if the deck is not exposed to extreme heat. Rubber that gets periodic use will last a lot longer than rubber that just sits.

Do not put new tires on pinch rollers. On single capstan decks, you might be ok, but WF specs will not be met-often by a lot. Sometimes, you get tape mistracking\skewing. The most cost effective true solution, is to have them rebuilt by Terry's Rubber Rollers (no affiliation-just have heard everyone say he does a great job-never heard anyone say anything negative). I think he charges about $35 each. He removes the old rubber, then vulcanizes new rubber onto the roller, then machines the rubber to the exact dimensions-just like the originals were produced.

Be sure you have a correct Teac belt. Most replacements sold are too thick and will never run right. New belts are still available from Teac. If you have a genuine belt, and known good rollers, then you might have to dig further.

There is a common problem with Teac X series decks. The auto reversing function depends on the single belt shifting on the flywheels to create slight speed differences between them-this puts tension on the tape between the 2 capstan\pinch roller points. Often, one direction plays fine, without the tape losing tension, while the other direction has problems. I had it so bad that the tape would visibly drop away from the heads-the 'ol Teac X Series tape droop'.

If you have a good belt, take cover off and run deck and observe the movement of the belt on the rear of the flywheels. When you change direction, you should see it move obviously from inner area to outer area on the flywheels, and vice versa. The movement is obvious-maybe 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch.

The motor bracket should have a couple of thin washers on 2 adjacent screws on the motor mounting plate, which tilts the whole motor assembly slightly, causing the belt to move as described above, when switching directions. You can try adding thin (perhaps 1 mm) washers on one pair, if they are missing.

Caution-it's tempting to crank up the back tension-this is rarely needed, unless someone else mucked with it. It might help in the short term, but it's not a solution, and it will put lots of extra stress on the capstan motor, which is a weak point, so treat it gently. New ones are so far available, but very costly.

Lots of threads here on the issue, showing the location of the washers, how to change the belt, lubrication, etc.
 
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If the pinch rollers are new or relatively new, sounds like you have an alignment issue between the tape and pinch roller and tape guides. the X series are somewhat known for this.

the older A series are more robust in holding the pinch roller alignment. might want to check service manual and see if yours are even close to spec before you do much else.
 
Catmanboo said:
Brand new chronologically, or brand new appearing? Watch the tape as it goes through the tape transport. Still wandering off the beaten path? If any part of it is mis-aligned (unlikely, unless physically damaged , as in dropped or something), this may cause the problem. I wish I could i-ball it myself & help figure it out. Just a thought- see if you can check the angle of the pinch roller as it engages the capstan. Should have even contact as the 2 meet. If one side hits capstan before the other, correct that, it can cause problems like you describe.
Click to expand...

It seems that the lubricant I applied worked and the tape is staying within the tape path. Will keep you posted and thanks!
 
oldvinyldude said:
Pinch rollers usually last much longer than 4 years. They eventually wear unevenly, or harden, but that can take decades if the deck is not exposed to extreme heat. Rubber that gets periodic use will last a lot longer than rubber that just sits.

Do not put new tires on pinch rollers. On single capstan decks, you might be ok, but WF specs will not be met-often by a lot. Sometimes, you get tape mistracking\skewing. The most cost effective true solution, is to have them rebuilt by Terry's Rubber Rollers (no affiliation-just have heard everyone say he does a great job-never heard anyone say anything negative). I think he charges about $35 each. He removes the old rubber, then vulcanizes new rubber onto the roller, then machines the rubber to the exact dimensions-just like the originals were produced.

Be sure you have a correct Teac belt. Most replacements sold are too thick and will never run right. New belts are still available from Teac. If you have a genuine belt, and known good rollers, then you might have to dig further.

There is a common problem with Teac X series decks. The auto reversing function depends on the single belt shifting on the flywheels to create slight speed differences between them-this puts tension on the tape between the 2 capstan\pinch roller points. Often, one direction plays fine, without the tape losing tension, while the other direction has problems. I had it so bad that the tape would visibly drop away from the heads-the 'ol Teac X Series tape droop'.

If you have a good belt, take cover off and run deck and observe the movement of the belt on the rear of the flywheels. When you change direction, you should see it move obviously from inner area to outer area on the flywheels, and vice versa. The movement is obvious-maybe 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch.

The motor bracket should have a couple of thin washers on 2 adjacent screws on the motor mounting plate, which tilts the whole motor assembly slightly, causing the belt to move as described above, when switching directions. You can try adding thin (perhaps 1 mm) washers on one pair, if they are missing.

Caution-it's tempting to crank up the back tension-this is rarely needed, unless someone else mucked with it. It might help in the short term, but it's not a solution, and it will put lots of extra stress on the capstan motor, which is a weak point, so treat it gently. New ones are so far available, but very costly.

Lots of threads here on the issue, showing the location of the washers, how to change the belt, lubrication, etc.
Click to expand...

I will admit that I had not used the deck for sometime but being indoors these days pushed to get moving on using the deck especially after I replaced the belts and rollers, both OEM, some 4 years ago. In any event, I did look at Terry's website and I appreciate the referral. Def seems like a nice alternative. Amazing how this hobby is allowing these niche business's to pop up. As I mentioned to another member, I did apply some lubricant as well as cleaning the rollers and all seems to be fine. I will keep you posted if it pops up again or just come back to this post. Any thoughts on the polyurethane rollers by Athan? Or have you heard anything about the material and design? Thanks
 
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