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Technics SL-D1 or Dual 604

By the way, we all forgot to say: Welcome to AK!

Both cartridges will work on both turntables. (BTW: Most components work with most other components. Tonearm length, weight, shape, and resonance; friction; capacitance; cartridge weight and compliance; etc. are all deeply dug rabbit holes on AK. Just follow manufacturer recommendations.)

Jico makes a full line of styli that are close to original Shure performance. I have 3 and they've all been top notch. LP Tunes, a dealer and white label supplier, carries the Jico N70EJ though I didn't see them on the Jico website. I don't know of any microline, Shibata, or hyperelliptical for that cartridge though so there really is no upgrade path if your stylus is not worn.

@malden has a great point - overthinking is endemic on AK. Listening and enjoying is the end goal at least for me and many others.

There is however a shiny new high performance toy aspect of this hobby. When I got my turntable (Technics SL-1300) it came with an M95EJ for which I got a Jico stylus - it worked great. But I was curious so I bought some new headshells and a few different sensibly priced cartridges just to try them. Fun and not crazy expensive. You can hear the difference between cartridges if you listen carefully. I have never heard any difference between turntables though some members feel strongly that it is audible.
 
C Hart said:
By the way, we all forgot to say: Welcome to AK!

Both cartridges will work on both turntables. (BTW: Most components work with most other components. Tonearm length, weight, shape, and resonance; friction; capacitance; cartridge weight and compliance; etc. are all deeply dug rabbit holes on AK. Just follow manufacturer recommendations.)

Jico makes a full line of styli that are close to original Shure performance. I have 3 and they've all been top notch. LP Tunes, a dealer and white label supplier, carries the Jico N70EJ though I didn't see them on the Jico website. I don't know of any microline, Shibata, or hyperelliptical for that cartridge though so there really is no upgrade path if your stylus is not worn.

@malden has a great point - overthinking is endemic on AK. Listening and enjoying is the end goal at least for me and many others.

There is however a shiny new high performance toy aspect of this hobby. When I got my turntable (Technics SL-1300) it came with an M95EJ for which I got a Jico stylus - it worked great. But I was curious so I bought some new headshells and a few different sensibly priced cartridges just to try them. Fun and not crazy expensive. You can hear the difference between cartridges if you listen carefully. I have never heard any difference between turntables though some members feel strongly that it is audible.
Click to expand...
Thank you for welcoming me. Good point on turntables. I think I'll try to determine which of the 2 tables is in better shape and work with it. Keep it simple. I'm just excited after bringing out the turntables after so many years. 15-20 years maybe.
 
Post if you have time on how everything turned out. I am always interested in what happens after the thread closes.
 
Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I'm leaning towards the om20 stylus upgrade on my dual 604 which has an om body. My 2nd choice is to change cartridge to the At vm95 ml. I've never done any alignment before. I guess I'll have to learn. I also read about protractors. It's all overwhelming. I may not even hear the difference with my modest setup which is more for digital surround sound. Regardless, I will likely also buy an upgraded needle for the Shure as it's inexpensive. . Then I'll have a couple of carts to play with.
 
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OldRay said:
Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I'm leaning towards the om20 stylus upgrade on my dual 604 which has an om body. My 2nd choice is to change cartridge to the At vm95 ml. I've never done any alignment before. I guess I'll have to learn. I also read about protractors. It's all overwhelming. I may not even hear the difference with my modest setup which is more for digital surround sound. Regardless, I will likely also buy an upgraded needle for the Shure as it's inexpensive. . Then I'll have a couple of carts to play with.
Click to expand...

I would suggest you to install the AT-VM95C (conical) which is a dirt cheap cartridge. And it's a very good sounding one. If you like the sound then you can upgrade it to the NE (nude ellpitical), ML, or SH by just purchasing the stylus. If you don't like the sound of the "C" you have saved the money of buying a more expensive cartridge like the VM-95ML, for the sonic signature is similar.

This is based on my experience owning the VM-95C, VM-95E and VM-95ML.

OM20 styli are very expensive nowadays, i'm not sure if the cost makes sense today.
 
malden said:
You could start by letting us know what amp and speakers you are using.
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Haha. I didn't really want to look at the back of my equipment to look up model numbers. Like I said, I'm not an audiophile but I like good sound (to me anyways) without breaking the bank. So I settle for the best sound on a budget. My setup is more for surround sound movies and digital music.
The receiver is Onkyo Tx Nr-575
I originally had Polks R300 in the front Left, right and csi3 in center. The 2 back surrounds were Athena technologies as-f1.2b-1
sub is Outlaw Lfm-1 ex
2 in-ceiling speakers Micca m-8c
I have since moved the Athenas to the front and put the polk r300s to the back. To me, the athenas sounded better (full range without sub). Better lows and not so tinny highs.
So, there's the long version. haha
 
malden said:
You could start by letting us know what amp and speakers you are using.
Click to expand...
btw. the technics with m70ej didn't sound great with my 2.1 setup. Could be the onkyo phono input or worn out needle. It sounded better with "all channels on stereo" (using all 7 speakers and sub) LOL.
The Dual with om10 has a broken needle. So, obviously not able to play it. It was my main table as a teenager. Connected to a NAD integraded amp with 4 huge 3-way tower speakers (quadraphonic) LOL.
 
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OldRay said:
Thank you for welcoming me. Good point on turntables. I think I'll try to determine which of the 2 tables is in better shape and work with it. Keep it simple. I'm just excited after bringing out the turntables after so many years. 15-20 years maybe.
Click to expand...
OK. I lied. More like 30 years ago for the Dual and 20 years ago for the Technics since I last played them. Where have the years gone? Both original ownership. The Dual was my father's. He listened to symphonies like Mozart and crooners like Bing crosby and The Lettermen. I listened to Rock.
 
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OldRay said:
(...) I've never done any alignment before. I guess I'll have to learn. I also read about protractors. It's all overwhelming. (...)
Click to expand...

If you don't want to fiddle with protractors, you could alternatively get the matching alignment jig - e.g. from Dualfred (see there: https://www.dualfred.de/Tonearm/Cartridge--Stylus/Cartridge-Gauge-214048NB-en.html). That jig isn't really a necessity, though - 'cause there also is a little "trick", similar to the trick with the 52 mm horizontal distance between the rear end of the rubber ring on the SME connector of the headshell and the needle tip for many Technics models. I.e., in case of your 604 the cartridge would (also) have to be mounted nicely squared in the TK24 carrier, but the correct position of the needle tip would be perpendicular down from the front edge of the cut-out for the finger lift lever (see for example over there on the two pics in that post on the German Dual-Board(.de): https://www.dual-board.de/index.php...nabnehmer-justieren/&postID=770819#post770819 (*)). That way you'd also replicate the original Dual alignment.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

*) And don't be surprised to see a silver TK24 rather than a black one there. That silver TK24 was part of the original halfinch-mount adaptor kit, that came with the original accessories for the CS731Q and CS714Q.
 
lini said:
If you don't want to fiddle with protractors, you could alternatively get the matching alignment jig - e.g. from Dualfred (see there: https://www.dualfred.de/Tonearm/Cartridge--Stylus/Cartridge-Gauge-214048NB-en.html). That jig isn't really a necessity, though - 'cause there also is a little "trick", similar to the trick with the 52 mm horizontal distance between the rear end of the rubber ring on the SME connector of the headshell and the needle tip for many Technics models. I.e., in case of your 604 the cartridge would (also) have to be mounted nicely squared in the TK24 carrier, but the correct position of the needle tip would be perpendicular down from the front edge of the cut-out for the finger lift lever (see for example over there on the two pics in that post on the German Dual-Board(.de): https://www.dual-board.de/index.php...nabnehmer-justieren/&postID=770819#post770819 (*)). That way you'd also replicate the original Dual alignment.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

*) And don't be surprised to see a silver TK24 rather than a black one there. That silver TK24 was part of the original halfinch-mount adaptor kit, that came with the original accessories for the CS731Q and CS714Q.
Click to expand...
This is a rabbit hole I'm not sure I want to dig deeper into. I'm pretty sure, back in the day, I just slapped a cartridge on and never thought anything else of it. LOL
 
malden said:
I have both, not a downgrade at all
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I read on an old thread on here that I could upgrade the M70ej cart with a N75ed type 2 stylus. But sites selling the N75ed do not show M70ej as compatible. Have you heard of this? Because I'm def buying a needle for the M70ej regardless of if I upgrade the OM10 or swap out the cart to a AT vm95.
 
OldRay said:
I read on an old thread on here that I could upgrade the M70ej cart with a N75ed type 2 stylus. But sites selling the N75ed do not show M70ej as compatible. Have you heard of this? Because I'm def buying a needle for the M70ej regardless of if I upgrade the OM10 or swap out the cart to a AT vm95.
Click to expand...

Here's the deal, The M70EJ and M70B were budget cartridges. Even though they share the same body as the mainstream M75 series, the plastic housings are not the same. Shure did that on purpose so that one could not insert the better needles in the M70 body.

Keep it simple, the N70B stylus I linked will not only fit perfectly, it will also sound and track the way that Shure designed it to, better than any of the cheap after-market needles out there.

When it comes time for an upgrade, don't bother buying a fancy stylus for the M70, just get a new cartridge so that you will not have to compromise when you need a new stylus for it
 
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I don't think the N75ED is compatible unfortunately. I recommend the Jico N70EJ. The conical stylus will not track as well at the margins. Or: Get both. Still under $100. You might enjoy a lively debate about their respective virtues.
 
Thank you everyone for your time and input. I ordered the At vm95ml premounted on a new dual tk24 headshell./sled (whatever it's called). It still cost less than a om20 stylus. Wish me luck with my first alignment/Setup. Hopefully, it sounds good connected directly to the phono input of the Onkyo TX nr575. If not I'll get a art djpre 2. I'll post the results soundwise in very lay terms.
 
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A Dual 604 (semi-auto) and Technics SL-1500 (manual) were my first top shelf tuntables in my youth in the 70's. I liked the look the Technics but preferred the mechanicals and auto-lift feature of the Dual better. I held on the Dual and used many cartridges including the OM-20 (same body as the OM-10). It was a very good match and I used this cartridge in rotation with a Pickering. I also used the Dual oem derivative of the OM series in a 714Q model. Great sound and match to the Dual tonearms.

The one big caveat is whether the Dual needs cleaning and a re-lube (very likely). Easy enough to do but a fiddlely business getting access to the mechanism under the deck. Also, got to clean out the connections in the headshell of the Dual. Notorious for crud build up which can cause hum and buzz.
 
Nice! That cartridge is dead accurate and will track just about anything, and as you found, is the deal of the century. If the Onkyo isn't malfunctioning it should work just fine. Looking forward to a report.
 
DavidF said:
A Dual 604 (semi-auto) and Technics SL-1500 (manual) were my first top shelf tuntables in my youth in the 70's. I liked the look the Technics but preferred the mechanicals and auto-lift feature of the Dual better. I held on the Dual and used many cartridges including the OM-20 (same body as the OM-10). It was a very good match and I used this cartridge in rotation with a Pickering. I also used the Dual oem derivative of the OM series in a 714Q model. Great sound and match to the Dual tonearms.

The one big caveat is whether the Dual needs cleaning and a re-lube (very likely). Easy enough to do but a fiddlely business getting access to the mechanism under the deck. Also, got to clean out the connections in the headshell of the Dual. Notorious for crud build up which can cause hum and buzz.
Click to expand...
Yes. The thought of greasing it up crossed my mind. The table seems to be holding the speed according to the strobes. So I'll hold of cleaning for now. One step at a time for me. I did buy a new headshell to avoid connection issues.
I really wanted the om20 stylus but too costly. Specially for future upgrades. I still have the body. So I might try the 20 or 30 in the future. But I doubt I'll spend anymore money on this tt. Famous last words.
 
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