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Technics SL-M2

dragion

dragion

New Member
I currently own the Technics SL-M2 with Shure 1200HRP P-mount cartridge.
I have the SL-M2 connected to my older Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K AVR via ART DJPre Pro II pre-phono amp.
This is bi-amped to a pair of Polk Audio TSI-400 speakers & a Pioneer SW-8MK2 subwoofer.
This is just a simple/basic set up for 2(.1) channel listening.

I used to DJ semi-professionally and used a pair of Technics SL-1200 for my work, but wanted something more "plug n' play" for my home listening.
I ended up purchased the Technics SL-M2 for $200 (no cart) back in 1995...figuring it was similar to the SL-1200.
The DJ equipment has been sold long ago...except for some of the vinyl which I still listen to from time to time.

My question is how does the Technics SL-M2 compare to today's modern turntables, such as the Pro-ject, Rega & Music Hall?
The reason why I ask is that is it worth "upgrading"?

I've research for answers, but have came up pretty empty...any information regarding my set up or upgrade suggestions would be appreciated.
 
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Let me concentrate on the turntable part of your set up.

Great turntable, not inferior to the 1200mk2 at all! If I recall correctly the platter is even heavier and also the rumble and wow&flutter specs are even better accordingly. So in some ways its even superior to the 1200mk2, at least in theory.

The only thing is that since it is a p-mount arm you have less options in cartridges than a regular arm. But still, there are excellent p-mounts available and with for example JICO you have the option of excellent replacement styli like the SAS stylus.

That being said, the 1200mk2 nor the M2 need to be ashamed at all compared to modern Pro-ject, Rega et al. Even more, when talking about < $1000 turntables I would say, on the contrary. If you stretch your budget considerably above $1000 and get into the current line of serious "audiophile" turntables you might achieve some improvement here and there, but do not expect any miracles.

So I would say: it's a keeper! No need to upgrade to a different TT unless you just like to have something different or spend some serious $$$. ;)
 
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dragion said:
I currently own the Technics SL-M2 with Shure 1200HRP P-mount cartridge.
I have the SL-M2 connected to my older Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K AVR via ART DJPre Pro II pre-phono amp.
This is bi-amped to a pair of Polk Audio TSI-400 speakers & a Pioneer SW-8MK2 subwoofer.
This is just a simple/basic set up for 2(.1) channel listening.

I used to DJ semi-professionally and used a pair of Technics SL-1200 for my work, but wanted something more "plug n' play" for my home listening.
I ended up purchased the Technics SL-M2 for $200 (no cart) back in 1995...figuring it was similar to the SL-1200.
The DJ equipment has been sold long ago...except for some of the vinyl which I still listen to from time to time.

My question is how does the Technics SL-M2 compare to today's modern turntables, such as the Pro-ject, Rega & Music Hall?
The reason why I ask is that is it worth "upgrading"?

I've research for answers, but have came up pretty empty...any information regarding my set up or upgrade suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

I had an SL-M1 which is very similar. I can't compare to modern tables since I haven't owned any, but the SL-M2 is a very well built TT with basically the same drive system as the SL-!200. Of all the vintage turntables I've owned (more than 50) the SL-M1 was built better than most.

I upgraded mine buy converting the P-mount to a standard 1/2" headshell and a carbon fiber wand on the arm. I also re-veneered it.

My answer is yes, it is worth upgrading, whatever those upgrades might be.

Jon
 
Just looked up the specs,

Platter: 325mm, 2.5kg, aluminium die-cast

Wow and flutter: 0.008% WRMS (turntable assembly)
Wow and flutter: 0.022% WRMS (JIS C5521)

Rumble: -82dB (IEC 98A Weighted)

So yes it betters the SL1200mk2, slightly.

I challenge you to find a turntable that does better. ;)
 
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I have an SL-MA1 and an SL-M3 and, if the M2 is anywhere near as good as these, then its definitely a keeper, as has been said!
 
jnoyes said:
I upgraded mine buy converting the P-mount to a standard 1/2" headshell and a carbon fiber wand on the arm. I also re-veneered it.
Click to expand...

Jon,

Did the SL-M1 have the same tonearm as my SL-M2?
If so, how did you go about replacing it with a carbon wand & headshell?
 
dragion said:
Jon,

Did the SL-M1 have the same tonearm as my SL-M2?
If so, how did you go about replacing it with a carbon wand & headshell?
Click to expand...

Yes, It is the same tonearm. I bought a headshell and some other parts on ebay. The carbon fiber tube is a kite spar. You can find various diameters and weights of carbon fiber tubes on Ebay as well. I basically just removed the existing wand and fabricated a replacement of the same length (that is to the center of the slots on the 1/2" headshell. I had to make some adjustments to the weight of the wand because there is a limited range of adjustment to the counterweight.

I also didn't like the spring and oil damping of the counterweight. I added some heavier weight oil to increase the damping and made it less bouncy (for want of a better word).

Here's a couple pics;

Technics046.jpg


Technics051.jpg


Technics044.jpg


Jon
 
Some of it is your other equipment.

Suppose you bought a new VPI Traveler with a Grado Gold, and plugged it into your existing system. That is certainly an upgrade, and you should hear much better sound. However, now the rest of your system would be holding it back. You'd need a better phono preamp, better cables, a heftier power amp, and better rack, etc, etc.

If you're at one level, it's hard to make a major jump just by changing one component. A lot of guys here have balanced vintage systems, and are happy with them. If you want to go high-end, then you have to do a whole round of upgrades.
 
vinyl1 said:
Some of it is your other equipment.

Suppose you bought a new VPI Traveler with a Grado Gold, and plugged it into your existing system. That is certainly an upgrade, and you should hear much better sound. However, now the rest of your system would be holding it back. You'd need a better phono preamp, better cables, a heftier power amp, and better rack, etc, etc.

If you're at one level, it's hard to make a major jump just by changing one component. A lot of guys here have balanced vintage systems, and are happy with them. If you want to go high-end, then you have to do a whole round of upgrades.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but what's wrong with doing one at a time? Sometimes budget needs to be considered.

Jon
 
vinyl1 said:
Some of it is your other equipment.

Suppose you bought a new VPI Traveler with a Grado Gold, and plugged it into your existing system. That is certainly an upgrade, and you should hear much better sound. However, now the rest of your system would be holding it back. You'd need a better phono preamp, better cables, a heftier power amp, and better rack, etc, etc.
Click to expand...

Depending on your definition of "much", I dare to question that. :)

Agreed that of course upgrading everything to the absolute top level would give a very noticeable increase in sound quality. But in that case the first things I would be thinking of - other major errors/issues in the system chain aside - are optimizing listening room, listening position, speaker position first. After that, the next component that makes lots of difference (/ possible improvement / better adjustment to ones tastes) are the speakers.

So I think that for major steps, in 99% of the cases the place to start would not be the turntable, when you are starting from a SL-M2 level. I think it is capable of serious hi-fi reproduction.

All things equal, I think the VPI Traveler could (and should, price tag and noblesse obliged) sound better. But if it is much, and how much that "much" actually is, that could be debated.
 
Any of the so called "modern" entry level or even higher turntables ($500-$700) can't even come close to your SL-M2 in sound/build quality, to better your Technics today with a new/modern turntable you'd be spending $2,000+.
 
vinyl1 said:
Some of it is your other equipment.

Suppose you bought a new VPI Traveler with a Grado Gold, and plugged it into your existing system. That is certainly an upgrade, and you should hear much better sound. However, now the rest of your system would be holding it back. You'd need a better phono preamp, better cables, a heftier power amp, and better rack, etc, etc.

If you're at one level, it's hard to make a major jump just by changing one component. A lot of guys here have balanced vintage systems, and are happy with them. If you want to go high-end, then you have to do a whole round of upgrades.
Click to expand...

I am not familiar with the VPI Traveler. Looking at the specifications for both the VPI and the SL-M2, I do not understand why the VPI would be an upgrade at all and why it should sound better. Being educated in the electrical engineering field, I am having a difficult time rationalizing that claim. What is it about the VPI that makes it sound so much better. Based on the specifications, they should have very similar performance. Am I missing something? And no, I'm not trying to stir anything up or start a debate. I really want to know what the factors are that would make one draw the conclusion that the VPI Traveler is an upgrade to the Technics SL-M2.
 
jnoyes said:
Yes, It is the same tonearm. I bought a headshell and some other parts on ebay. The carbon fiber tube is a kite spar. You can find various diameters and weights of carbon fiber tubes on Ebay as well. I basically just removed the existing wand and fabricated a replacement of the same length (that is to the center of the slots on the 1/2" headshell. I had to make some adjustments to the weight of the wand because there is a limited range of adjustment to the counterweight.

I also didn't like the spring and oil damping of the counterweight. I added some heavier weight oil to increase the damping and made it less bouncy (for want of a better word).
Click to expand...

Thanks Jon for sharing the excellent information and photos...something to consider.


vinyl1 said:
Some of it is your other equipment.

Suppose you bought a new VPI Traveler with a Grado Gold, and plugged it into your existing system. That is certainly an upgrade, and you should hear much better sound. However, now the rest of your system would be holding it back. You'd need a better phono preamp, better cables, a heftier power amp, and better rack, etc, etc.

If you're at one level, it's hard to make a major jump just by changing one component. A lot of guys here have balanced vintage systems, and are happy with them. If you want to go high-end, then you have to do a whole round of upgrades.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are going with this, but my question isn't what I require to improve my system, but to find out how's the quality of my current SL-M2 turntable/cartridge is compared to the turntables that are sold today...mainly models that are comparable.
If cost was not a factor, then of course purchasing new higher end equipment will achieve better quality sound results.
As for the amount I have spent on this set up, it still amazes me how well it produces music...this isn't just only my personal opinion, but also from a few of my "audiophile" friends too.


Here are a few more photos of my system


System
by dragioniii, on Flickr


Polk Audio TSI400 Speaker
by dragioniii, on Flickr


Pioneer SW-8MK2 Subwoofer
by dragioniii, on Flickr


Streaming via Sony VAIO Duo laptop & FooBar2000 music application


Sony VAIO Duo 13 Music Server
by dragioniii, on Flickr


FooBar2000 Facets
by dragioniii, on Flickr


FooBar2000 Playlist
by dragioniii, on Flickr
 
I got sniped on ebay bidding on a SL-M2.

Like magick47 said, to upgrade new, you would have to spend at least $2,000 and you're losing your automatic operation options as well.
 
The second unit from the bottom on your rack, is that your mini disc player? I busted out mine the other night. I saved my "mixed tapes" (although they were cd to mini disc) from the 90's on to the discs. I think I only really used the mini disc for a about 4 or 5 years. Once we got a computer in 98 that burned cds I dropped the mini disc format.
 
GPJeff said:
The second unit from the bottom on your rack, is that your mini disc player? I busted out mine the other night. I saved my "mixed tapes" (although they were cd to mini disc) from the 90's on to the discs. I think I only really used the mini disc for a about 4 or 5 years. Once we got a computer in 98 that burned cds I dropped the mini disc format.
Click to expand...

Yes it is.
I still have my mixed minidiscs that I created from CDs from the 90's too.
I still have my portable player/recorder also.
I always loved the format over mp3.

The Pioneer Elite DVD player below the Technics TT is used primarily for CD/SACD/DVD-Audio playback via 5.1 analog output.
I wished that SACD & DVD-Audio had not been phased out...the best format closest to vinyl! :thmbsp:
 
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