Did someone say Triumph? Not motorcycles but I came across these on a visit to Newport Rhode Island this past weekend. Took the pics for my buddy that once had a Spitfire.
2 too many wheels, but those are great too.
Technics SP10 mkII or Denon DP-80
- Thread starter tabarddn51
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2 too many wheels, but those are great too.
JP
7480 74111110101115
Did someone say Triumph? Not motorcycles but I came across these on a visit to Newport Rhode Island this past weekend. Took the pics for my buddy that once had a Spitfire.
Small world - my wife’s there this weekend. Where’s home?
Not as nice as that Carrera in your avatar. Guessing it's mid to late 80's. I have fond memories of getting behind the wheel of an '85 Carrera and an '86 Turbo (930 Widow Maker).
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Sgt Shultz
Addicted Member
Never said it was the main reason the table sounds so special eh, the platter bearing plays a part and it requires belt drive
, with the arm being the real magic. Imagine the cartridge riding on the air itself, no physical contact with the table, just the stylus in the groove, ya, now you've got it, that's the WTL arm.
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Sgt Shultz
Addicted Member
As for cogging your beloved Technics sure sees it as an issue, I believe they have much better test facilities than anyone here eh
And guess what, they are the Japanese so not the British press, and as they stated as much about conventional drive systems they were including their own tables that don't use a coreless motor eh.
So either they are out right knowingly lying and can't be believed about any of their statements or they're stating facts, can't have your cake and eat it too eh.
And guess what, they are the Japanese so not the British press, and as they stated as much about conventional drive systems they were including their own tables that don't use a coreless motor eh.
So either they are out right knowingly lying and can't be believed about any of their statements or they're stating facts, can't have your cake and eat it too eh.
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Sgt Shultz
Addicted Member
Direct drives use much lighter platters, they don't have the gearing a pulley system belt drive does to allow the use of such a heavy platter without cogging and noise being even more of an issue as the motor gets larger.
This was outlined in my earlier statement proving a belt drive system has exponentially more torque potential than a DD. You see I used to teach power transmission at the college level, there's a reason the industrial complex use belt drive predominantly (along with chain and gear drive) over direct drive, it allows for the use of smaller motors to perform the same tasks along with it's other advantages, a tried and true power transmission system for more than 200yrs.
This concept also helps explain the magic to the small motor concept that AR used in the XA etc, just enough torque to keep the platter spinning even enjoying a little push to help it get started, this ameliorates cogging through the belt which in itself also softens any cogging from a motor being transmitted to the platter.
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Not all. the Dual 701 and Yamaha GT2000 have quite heavy platters.
BillWojo
Addicted Member
Motor technology is ever changing. As far as DD tables having light weight platters it's because it's all they need to smooth out any impulses from the motor. If they really cogged than the platter mass would go up to eliminate any disturbance caused by the so called cogging.
Technics knew all along there was a better motor drive system but there really wasn't a measureable difference so why do an expensive redesign? Their latest designs are a "clean sheet" approach so they used the coreless path, besides it's a fair bit cheaper to produce.
@Sgt Schultz, I work in industry as well. One of the large metal cutting bandsaws I service has a capacity of 40" diameter stainless steel solid rounds. The blade is 3" high for beam strength. Band wheel diameters are about 42" diameters and the motor shaft is about 4" in diameter. There is no transmission, no gear reduction just a big ac motor driven by a variable frequency drive. Imagine the power required to saw a large round of stainless steel. The motor and VFD drive silently pull the blade through the cut at about 20 RPM. No cogging or anything. That's a DD bandsaw cutting some of the most toughest material out there. Like I said, motor technology is a moving target.
The Japanese had a handle on this technology back in the 1970's and steadily advanced it. It they thought rubber band drive was superiour to DD than every statement machine that they produced would have used it.
I'm glad you like your table, I suspect that the arm has a lot to do with why you like it, not the drive methode.
BillWojo
Technics knew all along there was a better motor drive system but there really wasn't a measureable difference so why do an expensive redesign? Their latest designs are a "clean sheet" approach so they used the coreless path, besides it's a fair bit cheaper to produce.
@Sgt Schultz, I work in industry as well. One of the large metal cutting bandsaws I service has a capacity of 40" diameter stainless steel solid rounds. The blade is 3" high for beam strength. Band wheel diameters are about 42" diameters and the motor shaft is about 4" in diameter. There is no transmission, no gear reduction just a big ac motor driven by a variable frequency drive. Imagine the power required to saw a large round of stainless steel. The motor and VFD drive silently pull the blade through the cut at about 20 RPM. No cogging or anything. That's a DD bandsaw cutting some of the most toughest material out there. Like I said, motor technology is a moving target.
The Japanese had a handle on this technology back in the 1970's and steadily advanced it. It they thought rubber band drive was superiour to DD than every statement machine that they produced would have used it.
I'm glad you like your table, I suspect that the arm has a lot to do with why you like it, not the drive methode.
BillWojo
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@Ken Boyd, don't buy it. Anyone who thinks the cartridge on a WT tonearm rides on air and has no physical contact with the table is completely misunderstanding what a bearing is. That's like saying a bridge doesn't have bearings. Not only that, in addition to the existing bearing points the relatively large paddle at the base of the tonearm itself is completely submerged in a goop as thick as molasses that creates more resistance than a snug bearing.
In reality, a unipivot is closer to the description of riding on air. It actually balances on the tip of a pin yet even it still has a bearing point. Both my unipivot and knife-edge tonearms feel and sound less constrained than the WT tonearm.
In reality, a unipivot is closer to the description of riding on air. It actually balances on the tip of a pin yet even it still has a bearing point. Both my unipivot and knife-edge tonearms feel and sound less constrained than the WT tonearm.
Even applies to durable goods. Our washing machine has a direct drive motor and this thing spins so smoothly an quietly (even at super high speed) compared to any conventional belt washing machine we've ever used.
These videos illustrate the difference pretty well.
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Sgt Shultz
Addicted Member
Actually band saws require very little torque as you know, the band in band saw acts as its own belt. The reason for the band is it's cooling factor, no secret there, this technology has been used since water was the driving force, and a smaller motor with a belt, etc would have done the job, you know this as fact.
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JP
7480 74111110101115
What does that mean? Stiction?
BillWojo
Addicted Member
If your talking about the DD bandsaw than yes, a smaller motor and a heavy duty gearbox is what we use on most of the saws I install and service. Google Amada HPSAW 310 for our latest hi-tech saw, nobody sells anything close to that machine, installed 4 of them so far.
The direct drive saw used a pulse cutting technology that both pulsed the blade as well as rocking the blade in the cut to achieve higher rates of production. Both could be shut off if needed.
This was just used as an example of the high state of motor/ drive tech that is available. Actually it was installed about 15 years ago!
BillWojo
The direct drive saw used a pulse cutting technology that both pulsed the blade as well as rocking the blade in the cut to achieve higher rates of production. Both could be shut off if needed.
This was just used as an example of the high state of motor/ drive tech that is available. Actually it was installed about 15 years ago!
BillWojo
JP
7480 74111110101115
Last night and again this morning my wife texted to say I have to go with her for the meeting next year.
Sgt Shultz
Addicted Member
The pulsing and rocking are to keep the blade teeth free of debris, this also works with hole saws. Next time you use one in your hammer drill put it in hammer mode, you'll find it cuts much faster with less effort requiring less torque to cut.
Sgt Shultz
Addicted Member
Not everyone knows proper setup of the WTL, obviously you're one of them if getting these results.