Testing audio cables

[Quadman2]

What gear is suggested for a better result?

So far you have described your gear as "Two set ups" (intro post), a later post mentions a "budget amp", and the other day, "a cheap Radio Shack and a "custom made set" that you put together.

That other set you "put together" was it a kit? Or a refurbished unit? To date you've had several suggestions, one by Harvester and his Technics set up. If you look back just recently there's a great thread on whether "tone controls" should be used", wherein different gear gets tossed around in the discussion of this sound issue.

When you suggest "better gear" are you wanting to go with: modern or stay with vint? Much of your future buys will be determined by the depth of your pocket, what quality you want to strive for, a lucky chance of encountering "better gear, or what the SO says. Sometimes the last variable is the most critical.

There's tons of info on AK wherein discussions carry on, as each person has a personal bias what is good or bad results based on what they've had in the past. I've got my own preference: Brit based (Quad), but that's just my personal take. For others it's gotta be Kenwood, Denon, Marantz etc.

Others can't get a handle on what you have as that second unit that may produce sound great sound.

In the end, it will be your own ears that will decide what you think sounds best. The testing devices may indicate what's going on, but the other variables such as: speakers, sound environment, amount of power, etc. have to be taken into account as well. Cables for me is one of the lesser important links in the search for better sound, as speakers and sound source are more important... but there are others who don't hold this belief. Sound is a very subjective element in this hobby...for most.

What is better gear? After you share what you've got, there are others on board far more knowledgable than I, who can make some great choices for you to follow up on.

Good luck on your quest, and let us know how it went.

Q

 

[UsableT]

In the end, it will be your own ears that will decide what you think sounds best. The testing devices may indicate what's going on, but the other variables such as: speakers, sound environment, amount of power, etc. have to be taken into account as well . . . Sound is a very subjective element in this hobby...for most.

This reminds me of a point I've heard made before: namely, that seeking satisfaction in listening to recorded music is not, and will never be, a question of ever more perfectly replicating the music before it was recorded, via some magic technological recipe as well as $$$$.

No doubt $$$$ equipment tends to sound better . . at least to those persons who can afford $$$$. But the recording industry would never have succeeded in the first place if listeners hadn't been happy to accept even the crudest technology so long as it fulfilled their subjective expectations. Think of all the period movies (e.g. that scene in Das Boot) where a scratchy 78 is being played on a wind-up record player - and the resulting sound is clearly a deeply meaningful experience to everyone in the scene:

One can certainly make a hobby of hi-fi listening - no problem with that. And one can set one's goals as one wishes. But ultimately I think most of us would agree with @Quadman2 that one's favorite technology is not necessarily the technology that can be shown to be "most accurate" at reproducing sound.

I have a little book in my library on tube preamp design by a British author, Merlin Blencowe; he makes the same point in his preface - see below. In place of his affection for "valve" (tube) amplifiers, you can substitute your own favorite technology - be it a particular brand, design, era, aesthetic, etc.:

Admittedly, there is no shortage of critics who will point out that the very best valve amp cannot match the linearity of even a fairly basic solid-state amp, and plenty of enthusiasts see better linearity as the unending, impossible crusade of domestic hi-fi. Indeed, they are so dogmatically inflexible on this point that I wonder if they ever actually enjoy listening to music, or if they are just perpetually disappointed with the limitations of technology—as one wry internet commentator dryly put it: "I'm just putting another record on the distortion analyser, dear."

I do not share this attitude. Perfect linearity is not a requirement for home listening (as opposed [to] the recording and mastering); surely what matters is realism and enjoyment, both of which are subjective rather than absolute metrics, and both of which valve amps seem to deliver quite easily despite being technically poorer than many solid-state offerings (although exactly why is a question that has never been satisfactorily answered).​

 

[Harvestor]

https://audiofi.net/2019/01/audio-engineer-claims-his-null-tester-settles-the-debate-on-wires/

Check out the link above...

It may stir the pot further or convolute the whole conversation.... Or not.

It's worth looking at for sure.

My opinion and personal experience is spend just enough money to satisfy what you "Believe" to be a better quality set of audio cables or speaker wires ...
I believe in giving a signalpath the least resistance possible will always be best for the equipment longevity.
I also believe that spending hundreds of dollars is foolish... And unnecessary, but if you have the expendable income and you like a particular product why not have the fun of getting something premium even if it's not really any better .... It may look prettier!

Going extra cheap using extra thin without much insulation is better left to those who could really care less about audio and the fun that it brings to the hobbyist that enjoys the gear and listening to it.

If a cheapie spool of speaker wire cost $15 and is 18 gauge, my personal opinion is why not spend a little bit more like $50 and get a 12 gauge spool of wire that is completely oxygen free genuine copper and even possibly tinned with silver.
This way you're getting something that is actually really good quality and probably just as good as a $70,000 pair of speaker wire.

You get what you pay for but then the law of diminishing returns comes into play when you start paying at much higher amounts.

Don't be "one of those guys" ....Cheep Ass bastard.....lol

If you're really into this Hobby then you will at least get the better than average Kmart special !!!

My Sister married the king of cheap-ass bastards that would always get the junky ass garbage with most things in life... One example that really could be appreciated here but is not Chief in examples by any stretch.....but it is that he found some...
"white van speakers by MTX with carpet cabinets"... For the living room running off my deceased brother's old Technics sa 500 and the freaking asshole either gave away or burned in a fire in his backyard my beloved Brothers OHM Acoustics model H.... I must edit this and add.... Or one of his son pawned them off for drugs..... The reality of what really happened to the speaker's is unknown... And my sister is either in the dark or not telling me the truth.... And that son died last May from a heroin overdose.

I haven't had any respect for this guy since I was a teenager and woke up to what a dickhead he is!

So if you're worried about pinching pennies and using cheap ass wires, then you're probably not really into this hobby like most people here on audiokarma....
But this is the best place to be we're not a bunch of snobs and if you just can't afford it right now do what you can but "DON'T BE THAT GUY" !!

 

[Harvestor]

I'm converting all of my RCA to these found at Guitar Center.... Replacing my 37 year old decent quality ones that look very similar.

You can get 10% and 20% coupons emailed to you if you sign up for their emails.

These cables are definitely better than the
$6 cables you can buy at Home Depot, .Menards or Kmart...!

 

[Quadman2]

https://audiofi.net/2019/01/audio-engineer-claims-his-null-tester-settles-the-debate-on-wires/

Check out the link above...

It may stir the pot further or convolute the whole conversation.... Or not.

It's worth looking at for sure.

My opinion and personal experience is spend just enough money to satisfy what you "Believe" to be a better quality set of audio cables or speaker wires ...
I believe in giving a signalpath the least resistance possible will always be best for the equipment longevity.
I also believe that spending hundreds of dollars is foolish... And unnecessary, but if you have the expendable income and you like a particular product why not have the fun of getting something premium even if it's not really any better .... It may look prettier!

Going extra cheap using extra thin without much insulation is better left to those who could really care less about audio and the fun that it brings to the hobbyist that enjoys the gear and listening to it.

If a cheapie spool of speaker wire cost $15 and is 18 gauge, my personal opinion is why not spend a little bit more like $50 and get a 12 gauge spool of wire that is completely oxygen free genuine copper and even possibly tinned with silver.
This way you're getting something that is actually really good quality and probably just as good as a $70,000 pair of speaker wire.

You get what you pay for but then the law of diminishing returns comes into play when you start paying at much higher amounts.

Don't be "one of those guys" ....Cheep Ass bastard.....lol

If you're really into this Hobby then you will at least get the better than average Kmart special !!!

My Sister married the king of cheap-ass bastards that would always get the junky ass garbage with most things in life... One example that really could be appreciated here but is not Chief in examples by any stretch.....but it is that he found some...
"white van speakers by MTX with carpet cabinets"... For the living room running off my deceased brother's old Technics sa 500 and the freaking asshole either gave away or burned in a fire in his backyard my beloved Brothers OHM Acoustics model H.... I must edit this and add.... Or one of his son pawned them off for drugs..... The reality of what really happened to the speaker's is unknown... And my sister is either in the dark or not telling me the truth.... And that son died last May from a heroin overdose.

I haven't had any respect for this guy since I was a teenager and woke up to what a dickhead he is!

So if you're worried about pinching pennies and using cheap ass wires, then you're probably not really into this hobby like most people here on audiokarma....
But this is the best place to be we're not a bunch of snobs and if you just can't afford it right now do what you can but "DON'T BE THAT GUY" !!

You focus on some bang-on pts.


Q

 

[John Tyler]

Replied to the wrong post

 

[John Tyler]

This reminds me of a point I've heard made before: namely, that seeking satisfaction in listening to recorded music is not, and will never be, a question of ever more perfectly replicating the music before it was recorded, via some magic technological recipe as well as $$$$.

No doubt $$$$ equipment tends to sound better . . at least to those persons who can afford $$$$. But the recording industry would never have succeeded in the first place if listeners hadn't been happy to accept even the crudest technology so long as it fulfilled their subjective expectations. Think of all the period movies (e.g. that scene in Das Boot) where a scratchy 78 is being played on a wind-up record player - and the resulting sound is clearly a deeply meaningful experience to everyone in the scene:

One can certainly make a hobby of hi-fi listening - no problem with that. And one can set one's goals as one wishes. But ultimately I think most of us would agree with @Quadman2 that one's favorite technology is not necessarily the technology that can be shown to be "most accurate" at reproducing sound.

I have a little book in my library on tube preamp design by a British author, Merlin Blencowe; he makes the same point in his preface - see below. In place of his affection for "valve" (tube) amplifiers, you can substitute your own favorite technology - be it a particular brand, design, era, aesthetic, etc.:

Admittedly, there is no shortage of critics who will point out that the very best valve amp cannot match the linearity of even a fairly basic solid-state amp, and plenty of enthusiasts see better linearity as the unending, impossible crusade of domestic hi-fi. Indeed, they are so dogmatically inflexible on this point that I wonder if they ever actually enjoy listening to music, or if they are just perpetually disappointed with the limitations of technology—as one wry internet commentator dryly put it: "I'm just putting another record on the distortion analyser, dear."

I do not share this attitude. Perfect linearity is not a requirement for home listening (as opposed [to] the recording and mastering); surely what matters is realism and enjoyment, both of which are subjective rather than absolute metrics, and both of which valve amps seem to deliver quite easily despite being technically poorer than many solid-state offerings (although exactly why is a question that has never been satisfactorily answered).​

 

[John Tyler]

So far you have described your gear as "Two set ups" (intro post), a later post mentions a "budget amp", and the other day, "a cheap Radio Shack and a "custom made set" that you put together.

That other set you "put together" was it a kit? Or a refurbished unit? To date you've had several suggestions, one by Harvester and his Technics set up. If you look back just recently there's a great thread on whether "tone controls" should be used", wherein different gear gets tossed around in the discussion of this sound issue.

When you suggest "better gear" are you wanting to go with: modern or stay with vint? Much of your future buys will be determined by the depth of your pocket, what quality you want to strive for, a lucky chance of encountering "better gear, or what the SO says. Sometimes the last variable is the most critical.

There's tons of info on AK wherein discussions carry on, as each person has a personal bias what is good or bad results based on what they've had in the past. I've got my own preference: Brit based (Quad), but that's just my personal take. For others it's gotta be Kenwood, Denon, Marantz etc.

Others can't get a handle on what you have as that second unit that may produce sound great sound.

In the end, it will be your own ears that will decide what you think sounds best. The testing devices may indicate what's going on, but the other variables such as: speakers, sound environment, amount of power, etc. have to be taken into account as well. Cables for me is one of the lesser important links in the search for better sound, as speakers and sound source are more important... but there are others who don't hold this belief. Sound is a very subjective element in this hobby...for most.

What is better gear? After you share what you've got, there are others on board far more knowledgable than I, who can make some great choices for you to follow up on.

Good luck on your quest, and let us know how it went.

Q

I'm just trying to develop an objective testing method with equipment that's within reach; I have 2 laptops and a cellphone and a solid state stereo amp. The only thing s used so far are the cellphone and laptops, and rca cables. My friend has an oscilloscope who I can visit on the weekend.

 

[Delkal]

I'm just trying to develop an objective testing method with equipment that's within reach; I have 2 laptops and a cellphone and a solid state stereo amp. The only thing s used so far are the cellphone and laptops, and rca cables. My friend has an oscilloscope who I can visit on the weekend.

I don't want to rain on your parade but the top cable manufacturers and audio geniuses have not been able to show that one cable of the appropriate gauge is better than any others scientifically. Sure with sensitive (expensive) equipment you can measure the resistance, capacitance, and induction of a cable. But there is no test to show how it sounds.

That is the reason for the unending cable debate. Some people claim certain cables "transform" their system. But others will point out that the most sensitive state of the art scientific equipment can't see any difference.

 

[AudioFeline]

And capacitance can be easily measured with the appropriate device.

 

[rothwellaudio]

I don't want to rain on your parade but the top cable manufacturers and audio geniuses have not been able to show that one cable of the appropriate gauge is better than any others scientifically. Sure with sensitive (expensive) equipment you can measure the resistance, capacitance, and induction of a cable. But there is no test to show how it sounds.
That is the reason for the unending cable debate. Some people claim certain cables "transform" their system. But others will point out that the most sensitive state of the art scientific equipment can't see any difference.

I was about to say pretty much the same thing. I'd be amazed if the test equipment could detect any distortion in a meter of cable. Yes, it is possible to measure resistance, capacitance and inductance - though you need pretty fancy gear to measure the low levels in a bit of cable - but that doesn't prove anything.

And capacitance can be easily measured with the appropriate device.

And ...

 

[rothwellaudio]

https://audiofi.net/2019/01/audio-engineer-claims-his-null-tester-settles-the-debate-on-wires/
Check out the link above...

Nice link, thanks.