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The ADC P-Mount That Wanted to be Real

this cartridge is my p-mount white whale. i've been trying to source one for the better part of a year, only to just miss one a few months ago. i've even pre-purchased an aftermarket evg .3 x .7 light-tracking stylus in anticipation of finally landing one.

i have a particular affinity for moving iron designs. this body and a couple other empire p-mounts (snagged an nos 105lt recently) are in my crosshairs.
 
this cartridge is my p-mount white whale. i've been trying to source one for the better part of a year, only to just miss one a few months ago. i've even pre-purchased an aftermarket evg .3 x .7 light-tracking stylus in anticipation of finally landing one.

i have a particular affinity for moving iron designs. this body and a couple other empire p-mounts (snagged an nos 105lt recently) are in my crosshairs.

I have two, but one I shaved down a bit to fit a standard p-mount adapter, but the output is very low on it making it pretty much useless except for maybe making it a 'guinea pig' of sorts I guess. I LOVE the Empire p-mounts (I have a 875XLT and three of the "LT" series - a 195LT, 295LT and 395LT - that are just incredible carts). I have a 'Red Ed' as well, which I believe is the same thing as the 105LT?
 
I have a 'Red Ed' as well, which I believe is the same thing as the 105LT?

i also have a 'red ed' with both conical and elliptical styli, albeit it is the china manufactured body which i believe is less desirable in some fashion. the empire 105lt looks identical, but it is the moving iron variant--the styli aren't interchangeable as you get little to no output when switched.
 
i also have a 'red ed' with both conical and elliptical styli, albeit it is the china manufactured body which i believe is less desirable in some fashion. the empire 105lt looks identical, but it is the moving iron variant--the styli aren't interchangeable as you get little to no output when switched.

Odd! I recall something of that nature with my Empire 195, al ect. One had a magnet, the others did not. I made no difference whatsoever though.
 
Fortunately, after 1964 ADC never went back to moving-magnet, at least not while they were still making XLM-style cartridges, so there's no MM/MI confusion as with the outsourced Empires (or with StantonPickerings). Plenty of confusion and shock, but not that kind.
 
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Like most of you, I'd heard of the ADC-rebranded Japanese-made p-mount cartridges, the PSXs and SERs
I have a PSX series; a friend likened it to a Grace F9. If you use a 1/2" adapter, you must modify it to hear this cart at its best, i.e, connect your tonearm leads directly to the P-mount pins, not the adapter's.
 
I LOVE the Empire p-mounts (I have a 875XLT and three of the "LT" series - a 195LT, 295LT and 395LT - that are just incredible carts).

i've only recently started looking for an empire 195lt - 1085lt cartridge body in the last couple months. so far i've yet to see an example come up on the auction sites. i'm also interested in acquiring the empre 280lt - 1080lt p-mounts as well. by their specs and naming convention the empire 190lt - 390lt also appear to be p-mounts, but i can't find any images to verify. i'm hoping none of these are as rare as the adc xt bodies.

besides the above and the l05lt, do you know of any other empire p-mount models?
 
We could also title this thread "The Lost ADC P-Mount".

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For a few years now we've been seeing NOS ADC styli with the XT prefix. Until recently, you could even get an XT version of the famous ZLM stylus for far less money than a 'real' ZLM stylus.

But where were the XT bodies? And what were the XTs? In a casual ADC conversation with one of our better-known online retailers, I was told the XTs were ADC's first p-mounts, and was shown a drawing of one taken from a 1980 Pfanstiehl catalog [middle image above]. This immediately became a mystery, since I'd never even heard of them.

Like most of you, I'd heard of and actually owned the ADC-branded Japanese-made p-mount cartridges, the PSXs and SERs...
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...and they were obviously good cartridges, but, equally obviously, they were not made by ADC and not physically compatible with any previous ADC models. I couldn't, for example, use my QLM 36 Mk III Improved stylus in any of my p-mount tables. And I so desperately wanted to!

On eBay, faked versions of this alleged p-mount showed up, making me think the XT cartridges were vaporware, or worse, rumorware. I'd begun to believe that ADC had intended to make this line, but, since time was running out, abandoned the idea at the last minute and went with the PSX/SER lines.

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This all changed when a bunch of XT-II cartridges and their legit-looking packaging showed up on eBay. There was an additional shock: the packaging said Integra XT. We know the ADC Integras as being well-designed integrated headshell-cartridge combos with slightly eccentric electrical specs. There are even Integra pre-mounts. But what was Integrated about a p-mount cartridge? Nothing, as far as I could tell, so why call it Integra?

I still don't know the answer to that question, but I finally know that the Integra XTs are both indisputably real p-mounts (mine weighs 5.95g) and real Integras, at least electrically (ie, wrt inductance and resistance-- 480mH and 760 ohms). Checking the US audio magazines, they emerged from the void, however briefly, in the fall of 1982 and were gone only a year later, replaced by the PSX/SER line.

The XT Integra bodies and styli are close enough electrically and VTFwise to the final-generation XLM/VLM/ZLM/QLM36 (including the XLM Mk II Improved) for the styli to be interchangeable. They're also close enough to be interchangeable with the better previous-gen (Mk II, not-Improved) styli, not to mention the better regular Integra styli (RXM-II and III) and Series styli (RS-III and IV).

And now, finally, I can use any of those styli in my p-mount tables, as long as they can track safely at 1.25g VTF.

Styli: XT-I is a bushed 0.7 mil conical; XT-II is a nude round-spike 3x7 elliptical on a straight canti; XT-III is a nude 2x7 'tombstone' on a tapered canti, and XT-IV is an "Aliptic" version of the XT-III. Since these are T4P cartridges, VTF is nominally 1.25g.
Could you use the RZL, from the Super XLM MkII, with this cartridge?
 
Short answer: yes. I've used the RZL in higher-inductance Integra and Mk III cartridge bodies to reduce the audible underdamped high-frequency resonance "spike" of that stylus.
Speaking of the Super XLM Mk II, has anyone come up with an actual example of a 160mH body, as the BSR-published spec sheet showed? ADC's specs said it's 300mH.
 
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I have an "XT-1" cartridge I ordered from LP GEAR, and some "XLM MKII Improved" styli I ordered from Rivertone (these are apparently made from original ADC components, with a 3x7 Diasa stylus and yes I've verified it is actually the Diasa and the green pivot block).

This combination (on my Technics T4P linear tracker) is very bright (the output is rather low, as well). I initially thought the brightness may be extreme sibilance and maxed-out the VTF (about 1.65g for this combination on my arm). This didn't help, so I moved onto using my MiniDSP (my system is biamped) to compensate, finally landing on a 5dB downward-sloping tilt from 200- to 20k, and the result sounds very good. I need to do more listening, but I think the overall balance closely matches my other cartridges/styli.

But that is a lot of tilt (see the pic below to see just what I'm talking about).

I've read of others experiencing sibilance with various ADC body/stylus combinations. I've also read that some styli models aren't really ideal on some bodies due (IIRC) to a lack of damping (of the stylus assembly) and a body with too low an inductance. I'm not even sure how damping on the ADC styli would be accomplished, other than the pivot block. Do they coat some cantilevers with something?

Have I hit upon a combination that would not normally (if not for my MiniDSP) be compatible?

I'd love to read ideas/comments.

Next up, I'll try the original spherical stylus that accompanied the XT-1 and see how it sounds (I can't believe I'm just thinking to try this now). I assume that can track at 1.5 or so grams, as it originally accompanied the T4P cartridge.

BTW, flattening cartridge responses was one of the reasons I moved to the MiniDSP (from my previous DSP-less crossover arrangement). I didn't expect this sort of extreme case, though.

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Just a follow-up to my post (above), I've been learning about my DIY speakers + MiniDSP (for crossover, I'm biamped) and this cartridge at the same time. Consequently, I discovered some issues w/ my speaker configuration and reset my speaker setup on my MiniDSP preset #4. After that, a 2dB tilt @ 7k made this cartridge sound very similar to the balance I get on digital sources of the same material.

This jives with the measurements I found here: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/frequency-response-curves-adcs-xlm-series.938219/

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Sorry for creating confusion.
 
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