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The amazing benefits of proper cartridge loading.

Well, hello Rito!

rito said:
I believe the Ortofon OM series calls for a 200-300 pF load.
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Not according to my research. :no:

rito25 said:
What kind of sonic changes did you get?
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My goal was to achieve better RIAA equalization and as expected, the lows, mids and highs do indeed sound as if there more "balanced" or in "proportion" to my ears.

rito25 said:
If I want to do this do I need to a multimeter to factor in the turntables RCA capacitance?
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No, I don't think so, as your final determination must be done by "ear".

rito25 said:
Brilliant way to set it up btw. Any degrade in sound quality do to the splitter?
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Not that I noticed, although I only used this arrangement to determine the additional capacitance desired. Once I had my value, I installed some 100pF capacitors directly to the (phono 2) RCA board internally. :yes:
 
Thanks for this info., Bill.

You've just added to my list of upgrades and tweaks to try.:yes:

Rob
 
Mexican resturaunts in Chicago are totally outrageous! Best Mexican food outside of rural Mexico. Can't beat Chicago's Pizza and Mexican resturaunts! :>)
 
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The Clearaudio Nano phono stage comes with a bag of resistors. Different resistors may sound better with different carts. With my MC, the "standard" alreeady loaded resistor sounds best.


Ken
 
Thanks

hesson11 said:
If you want to try this and don't feel like doing the soldering, etc., you can always buy the DB Systems DB-6 Phono Capacitor Loading Kit. It's got Y connectors with plug-ins that change the capacitive load. Pretty easy and not all that expensive.
-Bob

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/60043/DB_Systems-DB_Systems_DBP-6_Phono_Capacitor_Loading_Kit-Turntable_Accessories
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Thanks for the link Bob. It certainly does seem affordable enough.

And thanks, Bill, for this thread and Felix for tipping off many of the lesser informed of us to the difference this capacitance loading can make.
 
bluesky said:
Mexican resturaunts in Chicago are totally outrageous! Best Mexican food outside of rural Mexico. Can't beat Chicago's Pizza and Mexican resturaunts.
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My fav was always Nuevo Leon on 18th St at Laflin. My, I haven't seen my old buddy Danny G (the owner) in many years now. When I last saw him, I did of course tell him I was moving here.

In fact, just had lunch today at a popular mexican eatery here in town called "Margo's". I ate there 6 years ago, and it will probably be another 6 years again when I go! lol The food was bland, just too much darn shredded lettuce loading up the plate, which is dirt cheap. I had a combination, and seeing a Chile Relleno filled with "american" cheese was not all that tasty.

Sorry again gentlemen for off topic posts. I certainly don't wish to anger anyone by veering off topic.

My apologies as well to the original poster, that three pages of posts have passed to get some usuable information. All in all, I think it's been a good thread, with some good information that was shared amongst us members here. Mark
 
KeninDC said:
The Clearaudio Nano phono stage comes with a bag of resistors. Different resistors may sound better with different carts. With my MC, the "standard" alreeady loaded resistor sounds best.


Ken
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The correct way to load a cartridge is with a capacitor correct? I want to build a few of these but the post kind of threw me off since you said you are using resistors.
 
Big Bill said:
For the past several years I’ve been using a Pioneer SA-9500 II integrated amp for vinyl playback and I have grown fond of it and its ample cartridge loading options (both resistance and capacitance). Lately I’ve been thinking of giving a MC cartridge a try on my Empire/Linn hybrid, so in preparation I purchased an Onkyo P-360RS pre-amp for its MC cartridge capabilities. After servicing the Onkyo I gave her a whirl with my Ortofon OM /200NE cartridge. I immediately noticed much improved detail with this pre-amp V/S the 30 year old 9500 II, however it sounded a little “off” to me. This led me to wonder, just how critical is proper cartridge loading and could that be the source of the problem? With these questions in mind, I set out to learn how to add capacitance to a phono stage. After AK member catman was kind enough to clue me in as to how it’s done, I was off to the races! I bought two RCA “Y” adapters, some cheap male RCA plugs and a small variety of capacitors (51pF, 100pF, 150pF, 200pF, 250pF, 300pF and 350pF). I soldered the caps to the plugs and began to try each cap in successive order until I found the sweet spot. The factory recommended capacitance loading range for Ortofon OM carts is between 200-600pF (depending on the stylus to varying degree). The Onkyo has a factory capacitance loading of 220pF (thanks dr*audio). I found that the Ortofon sounded best to me with an additional 100pF capacitance (a total of 320pF). I’m here to tell you the sonic difference between 220pF and 320pF with this cart is nothing less than amazing to my ears!

This leads me to wonder why I haven’t seen more posts here regarding the importance of proper cartridge loading. I just happened to stumble upon this important adjustment by circumstance; I think it would benefit our members here a great deal if this topic were discussed here more often. What do you guys think?


Bill.
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Wow! great work (Bill and catman) and thanks for sharing you experience with us.
 
Thanks to Felix, my ears have been opened up to how great the Shure M97xE can sound. It's been transformed from blah to wow!
 
A relatively brief summary of cartridge loading - primarily for higher inductance cartridges (ie MM / MI designs)

1) Capacitance and Inductance

the cable ( and possibly loading capacitors ) capacitance and cartridge inductance result in a resonant peak (or if low enough - no peak) followed by rolloff in frequency.

Reducing either the inductance (ie switching cartridges!) or the capacitance (low C cables, reduced C loading) - will:
a) Shift the resonant frequency higher
b) Lower the resonant peak

2) Resistance
Changing the resistance will raise or lower the HF resonant peak created by the capacitance / inductance interaction.
Increased resistance raises the peak, reduced resistance lower the peak
It has no impact on frequency.


Flat frequency response - ie a relatively neutral spectrum - is achieved by balancing the mechanical resonance peaks of the cantilever, with the frequency curve generated electrically by loading.

So as an example - my Jico SAS M97xE stylus has a resonant peak around 12k to 15k Hz

To achieve a flat frequency response I need to:
1) compensate for a slight high/midrange droop in performance (common to many MM's)
2) compensate for a several db resonant peak generated by the cantilever resonance
so I need a boost around 8-10k then a drop at 10k balancing the rise caused by the stylus resonance - to achieve a flat F/R.

On a design like the M97 (or my related 1000e p-mount) - this can be achieved with circa 400 to 500pf, then adjusting the LCR peak with resistance... Catman's suggested R=62k

The end result is always a bit of a balancing act...

with my own Shure 1000e and the M97xE-SAS Stylus...

Setting C=420pf and R=47kOhm

results in 60Hz to 15kHz being within +/-2db but a steep drop off after that - -5db at 18kHz and dropping

NOTE: this is a lower inductance body than the M97xE (520mH)

Given the mechanical resonance of the stylus - this is basically as good as it gets..... raising the resitance to 62k results in a the midrange being a bit less "depressed" (filled in a bit more) - but trades it for a 2db rise in HF from 8k Hz to around 13k Hz

Lots of people like a HF rise - and prefer the enhanced (exagerated?) soundstage and "air" provided as a result...

It is possible to measure a stylus mechanical resonance, and by combining that measurement with some modelling to get a reasonable simulation of cartridge performance at various settings - which helps in choosing the best settings.... and in understanding why the system behaves as it does. (see Near Zero capacitance thread on Vinylengine)

bye for now

David
 
I see people adjusting the loading with capacitors, and with resistors. I'm just wondering if it would make sense to make a box with two stepped attenuators in it, one wired with resistors (as one normally would do for a volume control), and one wired with sequential capacitor values. In effect, a "loading box" that would allow adjustment of both capacitance and resistance. Short, straight, high-quality wires, solder and connectors would have to be used, since a weak phono signal would be passing through them, and very high-quality attenuators with gold (non-oxidative) contact surfaces, if it were to be left in-circuit.

The advantage would be that you'd be able to adjust both factors independently (and together) at the turn of a knob, for almost instant A/B comparison, to find what sounds best. You could still then hard-wire in just the selected component values, in order to minimize connections in the signal path.

Basically I'm talking about making a stand-alone unit that would do what some pres have already built-in, but one which would also allow for greater fine-tuning of values, beyond the few common ones usually found in the adjustable pre-amps. It would also allow simultaneous or independent adjustment of both capacitance and resistance, to suit whatever cart you were using.

Maybe this is more expensive (probably a lot more expensive, given the cost of good stepped attenuators!) than using simple splitters, but it would be more convenient to use, and it would allow quicker comparisons --useful since audio memory doesn't last long.

Any reactions to this idea?
 
I made a similiar suggestion on a thread like this some months ago and never heard a peep of a reply. One well built box with 10 caps and 10 resistors would give you a bucking funch of options and surely you could find a loading scenario that you liked. Then build a set of fixed plugs with that loading combo.

Make a good one and share it around a collective group. You don't need it very often, but when you need it . . . .

.
 
ghazzer said:
I made a similiar suggestion on a thread like this some months ago and never heard a peep of a reply. One well built box with 10 caps and 10 resistors would give you a bucking funch of options and surely you could find a loading scenario that you liked. Then build a set of fixed plugs with that loading combo.

Make a good one and share it around a collective group. You don't need it very often, but when you need it . . . .

.
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That "well built box" sounds like an absolutely cunning-stunt to me
 
catman said:
G'day all, good stuff Bill, but I'm not surprised to hear this at all, as I've been pushing this sort of thing with the Shure M97xE for ages!

At least as far as the M97xE goes, resistive termination variation works even better, but careful shunt capacitance loading optimisation is also a very valuable approach as well with most moving magnet phono cartridges. :thmbsp: Regards, Felix aka catman.
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Felix, how would one go about adjusting resistive termination?
 
G'day all, if one wants to go 'lower' than 47 k (increased resistive loading), then simply add additional paralelled resistors of the correct value across the phono input (inner to earth).

In the case of the M97xE where 'reduced' loading is desirable (higher than 47 k), this becomes more difficult as the existing 47 k resistor in the phono stage needs to be changed for another higher value resistor (for example 62 k, as I use).

This is not recommended unless one is familiar with electronics construction and soldering generally. A bit of a shame actually. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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