mr_petit
High on Vinyl
Yes, but I can also buy a fosi X5 for ~€100
That also has really good/straight riaa
But for now I have that Bugle2 sitting here
It was something I was planning to do this weekend or so.
The best phono preamp under $1000 (aka the Hagerman Bugle upgrade thread)
- Thread starter oranda
- Start date
That also has really good/straight riaa
But for now I have that Bugle2 sitting here
It was something I was planning to do this weekend or so.
mr_petit
High on Vinyl
That for sure looks like a quality unit. and very suitable to be part of a professional measurement rig
Low input C is also what attracted me to the Bugle in the first place. When I measure mine, it comes down to about 22pF, so that is pcb traces, connectors, internal wiring and input C of the first opamp I guess.
But I'm not really looking for a dedicated measurement setup, I want something that can also be used to listen too, and in a fairly compact enclosure.
If I go his route, getting the mm board, the mc board and his riaa switchboard, it also gets up there prisewise. It's definately more of a professional product than a consumer product.
JP
7480 74111110101115
"Part of" being the operative phrasing. I get that the value prop is partly driven by how much analytical work you intend to do.
If you go his full PTS then you gain switchable record and monitoring paths, and for measurement/analysis work you're going to find that capturing flat is rather beneficial. I don't use the PTS as my recording and monitoring paths are digital with switchable DSP RIAA. Were I in the analog domain up to capture I certainly would. $150 for the three boards isn't bad, but it does add up for the components, PSU, chassis, switches, etc.
If you go his full PTS then you gain switchable record and monitoring paths, and for measurement/analysis work you're going to find that capturing flat is rather beneficial. I don't use the PTS as my recording and monitoring paths are digital with switchable DSP RIAA. Were I in the analog domain up to capture I certainly would. $150 for the three boards isn't bad, but it does add up for the components, PSU, chassis, switches, etc.
You could leave R10 as is and short R11 or replace with jumper. Swap R13 for a 68K and change C6 to a large value bi-polar electrolytic. A 22uf or 47uf Nichicon ES would work.
desertrat748
Super Member
But for now I have that Bugle2 sitting here
It was something I was planning to do this weekend or so.
If you build your Bugle2 pcb with the mods that Oranda listed up pages ago, I think your going to be very happy with the results. Mind the fact that choices of opamps, and the c4,c5,c6 caps will make a big difference with overall sound quality/enjoyment. I mentioned it before that adding in the Takman metal film resistors (REYs) where possible also added a bit more transparency in the hf. The Takman metal film REYs were recommended by Oranda and I was so skeptical on my first build that I didn't use them. I'm a big skeptic by nature. Totally eating crow afterwards so on the 2nd build I went full out and used all of the best caps and resistors that had been tested out prior. I'm a slow learner but the results don't lie. But it really depends upon your system and your ears, and how well you can setup a cart.
For a small investment, about 50 bucks, I purchased a Schiit SYS Passive Preamp Volume Control & 2-Input Switch. There is absolutely zero circuitry in the SYS other than the rca jacks, the input 1 or 2 switch, pcb and the volume control potentiometer. Basically adding a volume control from the turntable directly to the power amp. It is the most transparent preamp I've ever heard btw. So my thoughts were to see if the first build versus the 2nd build made any difference. Before anyone doubts it, like I know some do try and argue, that's $7k of table & cart, into a $250 diy phono preamp, into a $5k amp. So I think the chain is solid to do the comparing of apples to apples. Took out the T+A P1230 preamp out of the chain bc it does have its own "sound" even though reviewers have said that it was the "most transparent" preamp they've ever heard.
Both builds used the exact opamps starting with the opa2210 in U2. First Bugle2 build was more of a budget build with only one pair of REY resistors, CDE silver micas in C5, and cost friendly caps in C4,C6. 2nd build had 9 pairs (maybe 10) of REY's , Charcroft Silver Micas, and premium caps in C4 & C6. Swapping for some A/B testing between the two builds and using just the SYS for volume control. There is definitely a difference between the two. 1st Bugle build has a little less detail and overall a little less of the lifelike presentation when compared, but it has a very balanced sound with great low end. The second Bugle build with $50 more in premium caps & resistors definitely & immediately had more detail, air, and hf sparkle. Worth the extra $50? Absolutely! It's hard to unhear the openness and extra detail. So much so that I put away the first Bugle build and never have looked back.
Jim's design is small, concise with short paths between to help keep it quiet. No smd bs to have to deal with so just a basic soldering iron will get the job done. Cost effective and just brilliant. Shout out to Oranda for starting this thread and recommending the Bugle, and all of the work/testing with the mods. Shout out to Jim for designing such a wonderful phono preamp. I honestly don't think it can be beat for the price and ease of the build.
But now @knotscott has built a Hagerman Cornet I'm very tempted to build one and compare. Can't imagine topping the Bugle2 build but that tube magic and reviews are drawing my attention.
Let us know what you think once you complete your build!
desertrat748
Super Member
Just beautiful! Officially jealous now. We will have to corrupt Oranda and start a Cornet tube driven preamp thread! Do you notice a big difference or just a subtle difference between the two? I think it’s very similar in the layout but using tubes instead of the opamps, and the high voltage rail to drive them.… but I could be wrong. Neuman hole(pole)removed or does it have one? I think I have to order one. Invite you and Oranda and Jim out for technical assistance? It’s only 107 today and 25% humidity. Don’t know if anyone would want to leave Hawaii, New York or Southern California for this fine weather though.
Going to be interesting to find out what you think about the Bugle vs Cornet.
knotscott
Super Member
Not sure about the Neuman pole....the circuit is stock, but most of the components in the audio path are upgraded - Takman resistors, poly or silver mica caps.
The difference was fairly noticeable to me, but I've demonstrated similar differences to people who don't know my system as well as me, who didn't pick up on it right away....pretty typical of short demos/comparisons. It's certainly not night and day, but offers a deeper, bigger, more vivid soundstage with better separation. That'll likely vary a bit with each system, plus perhaps tube selection. In the end, I'm glad I did it...makes me smile every time I listen.
So that 107°F is at least a dry heat?! (like my oven!)
I don't think I know enough words to actually write a thread about the Cornet! That's why I was hoping you and Tony would build one!
mr_petit
High on Vinyl
So I was looking at the schematic again, and saw that the input loading resistor (R2) is 47,5k and not the usual 47k.
I know it's only a 500ohm difference, but is there a specific reason for this?