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The continuing distortion of the term "vintage"

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If you ignore the literal reference to grapes or wine, vintage just means product of a certain year. It could be last year, or any year, although many people use the word when they mean old. I would guess those speakers aren't very new.
 
My connotation of Vintage, when used with audio equipment is certain decades. In my brain anything earlier than the mid 80s could be called vintage.

There is a lot of vintage junk out there. You have linked to some.
 
stereofanboy said:
If you ignore the literal reference to grapes or wine, vintage just means product of a certain year. It could be last year, or any year, although many people use the word when they mean old. I would guess those speakers aren't very new.
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I agree completely... To me, vintage would be exchangable with the word circa..... and you don't call an item circa, and when you use it, you include a year with it...
 
I thought anything over 20 years old can be called vintage or classic. It doesnt have to be a good speaker to be vintage but a good speaker is classic.
2 decades!!!
 
I don't have any problem calling those speakers vintage, since they date from at least as long ago as most of the gear that we call vintage. The grill cloth and other features date them to a few decades ago.

While we may often tend to associate "vintage" with some of the so-called "finer things in life", like vintage cars and vintage wines, all that "vintage" really means is that it is associated with past years, not that it necessarily is of high quality. Yesterday's audio junk is what we may call "vintage junk" today. The fact that it is vintage doesn't change the fact that it is JUNK!

So while I'd agree to calling those "vintage", I'd balk at calling them "classic" or "Audiophile" or anything that truly connotes "high quality".

Still, if you are trying to sell something, you describe it in the best way you can, to cast it in a flattering and attractive light. I can't blame the seller for trying! If he put in the ad, "These are cheap pieces of rubbish that were foisted on some stupid idiot years ago, that never should have been made, let alone sold, other than perhaps as speakers for a kid's starter system," how many people would buy the things, and for what price?
 
Arkay said:
While we may often tend to associate "vintage" with some of the so-called "finer things in life", like vintage cars and vintage wines, all that "vintage" really means is that it is associated with past years, not that it necessarily is of high quality. Yesterday's audio junk is what we may call "vintage junk" today. The fact that it is vintage doesn't change the fact that it is JUNK!

So while I'd agree to calling those "vintage", I'd balk at calling them "classic" or "Audiophile" or anything that truly connotes "high quality".
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+1!

Very well said, as always.

I'm afraid that someday the market for anything old will boom, just because it's old, and people won't know the difference. Especially with audio.
 
If you are twenty years old, then you would certainly consider those vintage. If you (like myself) grew up seeing that type of speakers in stores, then your perception is different. My dad bought a new Karmann Ghia in 1962 and to me it just seems like an old car. Plenty of folks would call that car vintage, though.
 
vinyldavid said:
+1!

Very well said, as always.

I'm afraid that someday the market for anything old will boom, just because it's old, and people won't know the difference. Especially with audio.
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You don' get out much do you? Seems any more anything old is way over hyped and priced... I think once again, we know who to thank.. .e-bay... and of recent, Etsy....
 
I have no issue with those being called vintage. Most auctions consider an item vintage if it is over twenty years old.
 
Vintage has a defined meaning in association with wine. If used outside of that context, it is marketing babble, nothing else.

Similar eBay terms are 'mint', and its derivative 'minty', as well as 'virtual'. I love descriptions like 'virtually scratchfree'. What that means is: "It would be great if the item had no scratches so I could get more money for it, but in actual fact it has at least one scratch!" :lmao:
 
similost said:
You don' get out much do you? Seems any more anything old is way over hyped and priced... I think once again, we know who to thank.. .e-bay... and of recent, Etsy....
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Ugh, too true. I saw a color wheel, like for christmas, in rough shape for something like $40 the other day...it's a lightbulb, a motor, and a plastic sheet, it probably wasn't $40 new:rolleyes:.

Etsy has done some of it, but the worst part is the gutting people do of good pieces for art, like typewriter key jewlery. But that's another topic altogether.

Anyway, I usually count anything from before 1980 as vintage, anything from the late 40's,or 50's and earlier as antique, and typically any stuff from the 60's gets branded as retro or chic or something. It's just buzzwords.

I would think those speakers count not just for year, but style. woodgrain veener, heavy tweed speaker-cloth, and coloration all look "vintage", quality or no.
 
Urchinn said:
If you are twenty years old, then you would certainly consider those vintage. ...
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+1 I can tell you that I see ads like that on CL all the time, and come to find out these sellers are kids (18 or 19 years old), and they found them in the store room or attic and these "vintage" speakers or systems were manufactured before they were born. They certainly are vintage in their world...it's all relative to your age.
 
Arkay said:
I don't have any problem calling those speakers vintage, since they date from at least as long ago as most of the gear that we call vintage. The grill cloth and other features date them to a few decades ago.

While we may often tend to associate "vintage" with some of the so-called "finer things in life", like vintage cars and vintage wines, all that "vintage" really means is that it is associated with past years, not that it necessarily is of high quality. Yesterday's audio junk is what we may call "vintage junk" today. The fact that it is vintage doesn't change the fact that it is JUNK!

So while I'd agree to calling those "vintage", I'd balk at calling them "classic" or "Audiophile" or anything that truly connotes "high quality".

Still, if you are trying to sell something, you describe it in the best way you can, to cast it in a flattering and attractive light. I can't blame the seller for trying! If he put in the ad, "These are cheap pieces of rubbish that were foisted on some stupid idiot years ago, that never should have been made, let alone sold, other than perhaps as speakers for a kid's starter system," how many people would buy the things, and for what price?
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That is all very true. However, keep in mind that at the time that those speakers were new there was a large demand for that kind of junk just as there is today. Have you been to WalMart, BestBuy, Target, Sams Club or Radio Shack recently? The same kind of junk is being sold today except that it now has a lot more blinky lights in plastic George Jetson kind of case with a handle on top. There still is a market for inexpensive crap that, considering the audience here at AK, most of us consider to be genuine crap. Not everyone appreciates, much less can afford, what most of us would consider to be quality entry level gear. It is a matter of price and perspective. A lot of people are perfectly happy with the cheap stuff that they shop for and ultimately buy. The issue is those manufacturers, sales reps and individuals that overstate the audio and build quality of cheap crap. And that applies to both new crap as well as old crap.

Wasn't it Billy Joel than said "New junk, old junk, it's all just the same to me"? Something like that anyway...
 
I suppose it's good that there is market for not-so-quality stuff -- leaves more good stuff for us :banana: On the other hand, misrepresenting stuff as classic that is just old crap isn't cool.
 
I don't have any problem with seller using "vintage."
Nowhere does the seller claim they are good.
He even claims he doesn't have the ability to test them.
Although, they don't seem to be in "very good condition" to me from the pictures.

Caveat emptor, I say.

If someone buys them, they deserve them.

Although kitschy may be appropriate. But who am I to judge.
I'm neither an elitist audio expert nor lexicographer.
 
Those speakers are from around 1976 to 1982 or thereabouts. They are vintage in that respect but that doesn't mean they are any good.
 
Vintage,shminatge,are you all dillusional or what?Emerson and a few other brands are not Vintage in any sense/meaning of the word no matter how old they are!Vintage or whatever some want to call their Stereo set-ups/systems to me come at least from the 50's,60', or 70's,Tubes or otherwise!Macs,Pioneers,Marantz,Rotel,Sansui and a few exotic brands would likely be the systems or pieces most Fans,Hobbyists or collectors would like to find!Yes there are others also but get real "Emerson" is not one of these as well as many other lesser known brands!Beautiful Silver Faced or not,Wood cases or not,Blue/Green/Yellow lites,Tubes,SS whatever is what I believe is what is meant for the most part as Vintage!This Politically correct stuff is "Baloney"...."PERIOD"...:)But I guess the bottom line is,believe what you want,to each his own because quite frankly I now have a complete Pioneer 70's Silver Faced System(10) pieces yet started out with way less back when and was happy at the time to have what I had back then and only through members who showed me the light on good units was I slowly able to amasse what I have today and for this I thank you all....:)
 
Mid 70's speakers are not vintage? What planet are you from?

Those speakers were part of a bookshelf stereo system from around 1975. I know because a friend of mine had one. They sound like crap, but its vintage.
 
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