The new ATN-3600LE stylus from Audio Technica

[cafe latte]

I'm just going to say it and tear the bandaid off. As far as I can tell, you are just a hobbyist who taught yourself to retip, similar to Joseph who used to be here until he got the boot from the mods.

Unless you are a professional engineer or otherwise formally trained in phono, you are just another hobbyist swimming in the same sea of contradictory, often decades-old info about playing records. For every assertion you make about 300 hours on an elliptical, I can find manufacturer instructions to contradict you. You have no more knowledge or expertise than any of the rest of us as far as I'm concerned. Further, your assertions are repetitive and stated as if you are an expert engineer which I believe you not to be.

You're welcome to your opinions but you are not an expert.

Do you make cartridges?
No. I listen to a MC I made foe myself every night that would make me more an expert than you. Self taught or not when you do something every day people become experts.
Not every retipper are experts but not every retipper winds coils or does diamond only retips. Joseph does both which makes him an expert too.
No retippers are formally trained, you can do courses in watch repair or gunsmiths but you can't do any course in cart repair or retipping.
The great Garrott Brothers were self taught for example.
Most retippers Joseph included get a lot of customers who count hours and send cartridges for a retip so these retippers get a very clear idea how long stylus last.
Also pop over to VE and read the stylus study 2 and you will see that elliptical was very worn in 296 hours.
Do you look at stylus every day and assess wear many with known hours? Umm no again..
Enough said
Chris

 

[cafe latte]

It is amazing how much difference a little tracking weight can make. AT also gives 300 hours for their .3 X .7 mil ellipticals at 2 grams, but I used my N97xE styli tracking at 1.35 grams for 500 hours, and the dealer's microscope showed what he called "minor" wear. I always went ahead and replaced them at 500 hours, but he said the old one would still be safe for my records as a short-term backup.

This is very true, over 1.5g wear increases exponentially. An elliptical tracking at 1.25g can last a long time but not at 2g.
Chris

 

[Andrei]

How does one count the use hours anyway?

 

[cafe latte]

How does one count the use hours anyway?

People get those clickers for counting people entering a club and click sides played so estimating can be quite accurate.
Chris

 

[Andrei]

I prefer to use a very handy digital microscope, take a snapshot of the stylus when new, and then compare it from time to time with the used stylus....

 

[Boltman92124]

I just bought one of these by accident thinking it would track at 2G like other .3 x .7 ATs and the LP Gear. I will fit it and start at 2.5g and see how it does. I bet it works fine at 2 or 2.5g and AT just puts 3-4g assuming it's going on an LP60 and such. I'll report back here.

 

[hugoku]

Same. I sutmbled upon this forum looking for info on this stylus. It does not make sense to me for a 0.3 x 0.7 eliptical to track so heavy. This is clearly marketed towards lp60 and soundburger AT users.
I'll attach this to a 1 by One I have access to and set it to 2 and see how it goes.

 

[jrtrent]

Same. I sutmbled upon this forum looking for info on this stylus. It does not make sense to me for a 0.3 x 0.7 eliptical to track so heavy. This is clearly marketed towards lp60 and soundburger AT users.

Tracking a .3 X .7 mil elliptical that heavy doesn't make sense to me, either, and as an LP60X user, I know that I'll not be buying any elliptical styli for it.

I'll attach this to a 1 by One I have access to and set it to 2 and see how it goes.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes for both you and Boltman92124. Not many years ago, AT's literature said the AT3600L's tracking force range was 3.5 grams ± 1 gram. My latest ATN3600L styli have given the narrower range of 3.0 to 4.0 g (3.5 g standard), same as the new ATN3600LC and ATN3600LE styli. A friend of mine had an AT3600L as a stock cartridge on his Music Hall turntable. The turntable's manual suggested 3 grams vtf, but he got better sound and tracking using 3.5 grams.

 

[Boltman92124]

Tracking a .3 X .7 mil elliptical that heavy doesn't make sense to me, either, and as an LP60X user, I know that I'll not be buying any elliptical styli for it.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes for both you and Boltman92124. Not many years ago, AT's literature said the AT3600L's tracking force range was 3.5 grams ± 1 gram. My latest ATN3600L styli have given the narrower range of 3.0 to 4.0 g (3.5 g standard), same as the new ATN3600LC and ATN3600LE styli. A friend of mine had an AT3600L as a stock cartridge on his Music Hall turntable. The turntable's manual suggested 3 grams vtf, but he got better sound and tracking using 3.5 grams.

It sounds great. Need to put it back on shortly. Tracking it as 2.5g like I did with the LP Gear. Fabulous no issues. I'm sure the heavier spec is for the LP60 folks. I'll try 2G next time. Output seems like 3/3.5mv.
PS- Your friend was using the 3600l conical Different scenario.

 

[T68]

Analogis sells a nude elliptical Black Diamond, DN251 stylus for Dual DMS251 cartridges, which should track at1,5g - 2,0g.
Guess which cartridge this fits? Yup, the AT3600l.
This would be my choice if I where to spiff up a 3600.

 

[jrtrent]

It sounds great. Need to put it back on shortly. Tracking it as 2.5g like I did with the LP Gear. Fabulous no issues.

Glad to hear it worked out for you at a lower tracking force! With a .3 X .7 mil elliptical, though, my comfort level currently tops out at 1.5 grams.

I'm sure the heavier spec is for the LP60 folks.

Odd. I would expect a tracking force range to reflect what the stylus can realistically be tracked at, not what turntable a person might own. If, for example, the stylus could work for different people across a wider range, such as the 2-5 gram range of the Stanton 500 AL, it might appeal to a wider group of users. But then, I don't really understand marketing.

PS- Your friend was using the 3600l conical Different scenario.

Different stylus shape, but similar scenario as he was trying to track the stylus below the vtf that AT suggested was "standard." I'm sure the turntable he was using and where he had it sited had something to do with how much downforce was needed.

 

[melofelo]

If a cartridge needs much more than 2.0gm downforce I skip it.
If it needs much less than 1.5gm downforce , you're really looking at very low mass arm like a Dual ULM or maybe something like that fitted to a Philips GA-212 to ensure you're not getting tonearm wobble.
On mild warps , this constant, uncontrolled ( Undamped) tonearm wobble can cause permanent groove damage just as quickly as a worn stylus.
It's best to get the compliance match fairly close between your tonearm's effective mass and the stiffness of the cartridge suspension first.
Remember that the ' Purpose' of a tonearm is contradictory...
A: It should allow the Cartridge to follow a rotating groove without adding enough drag to add significant ( audible) wow and flutter to the speed of the platter.
BUT also...
B: When the record groove 'deflects' the stylus assembly ...Neither the cartridge or the tonearm holding it should deflect enough from its position to add distortion ( audible movement) to the musical information the stylus is transcribing .

Tracking at 1.8gm-1.9gm downforce , I've managed to get an AT-95E somewhat beyond that 300hr usage limit that seems to be some modern reappraisal of an elliptical's lifespan. Been doing this since the late 80s with this particular cartridge.
The conventional wisdom back in the day was that an elliptical stylus will cause less groove damage than a spherical when tracing high frequency information ( assuming correct setup and a decent profile, manufacturer's polish ) ,and, also that around the 400 to 600 hour window was about the time to consider a replacement , if the cartridge has been used sensibly at the recommened tracking force.

A good test of when to replace a stylus is to play the inner groove of a non valuable but good condition LP and listen out for sibilance.

 

[SmileyFaceEQ]

I consider records disposable unless extremely rare or sentimentally significant and tend to play those that are less frequently. If it is an easily replaceable record I wouldn't say I abuse them, maybe more neglect them.

I also have a large cartridge collection and swap them often which helps spread the load. As for the 3600 carts, I buy them in bulk for playing rougher condition records with absolutely no regard for their lifespan. I will say that for the money they can't be beat value wise to my ears and I run them at 3G.

I will be trying the new eliptical stylus out of curiosity and will see how it tracks on the lighter end of the vtf recommendation.