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The OFFICIAL MSM5540RS/M5540 Sansui Gx700 40pin IC Thread! NUDIES

Good news from Maine!! I decided to take the "shotgun" approach, and picked up one of the chips Sansuiman suggested. This solved the problem. So, whatever logic takes place inside the MSM chip that deciphers the Prescaler output was defective. The digital display now shows correct both for AM and FM. I also installed a 40 pin socket, as I did have some scepticism concerning replacing this chip. So, I expect another happy customer, and I am thrilled to finally lick this problem.
 
Hey All,

I'm working on a Sansui G-9700. It's tuning fine but take a look at the display in the link below. It's always 188.88 on AM and FM. Also, on FM, FM is displayed but on AM, AM and FM are displayed. Same for MHz and kHz. All the voltages on the board seem to check out with the schematic. If it helps, the board is an F-3088. I'm guessing it's the 40 pin MSM chip but I wanted to check with the wisdom of the group. Any thought would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Matt

https://flic.kr/s/aHskT2dXnN
 
Very likely the chip, but do try to check the prescaler output first just to verify the input signal to the chip is varying as expected. While a few instances of a failed crystal (which provides the reference "system clock" for operation of the MSM5540) have been reported, the chip appears failed in more cases than not, at least as has been posted here multiple times.
 
Hey All,

I'm working on a Sansui G-9700. It's tuning fine but take a look at the display in the link below. It's always 188.88 on AM and FM. Also, on FM, FM is displayed but on AM, AM and FM are displayed. Same for MHz and kHz. All the voltages on the board seem to check out with the schematic. If it helps, the board is an F-3088. I'm guessing it's the 40 pin MSM chip but I wanted to check with the wisdom of the group. Any thought would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Matt

https://flic.kr/s/aHskT2dXnN
It will be the Chip, 95% likelihood.
 
Interesting that the F-3010 Pre-Scaler board is used in all six of the receivers of this series. The layouts and schematics shown in the SMs are the same except that the bds in the 87 & 97 have an added 0.022µƒ cap across R07.
 
As you can see above, I just recently went through this repair myself. The symptom wasn't exactly like yours, as my digital counter was counting, but not correctly. Did the cheaper stuff first, like replacing the crystal, however, now in afterthought, had the crystal failed, the symptom would have been far worse, as I suspect the MSM chip would not have functioned at all. So, I'll go along with my colleagues here, and recommend replacing MS chip, AFTER verifying the prescaler functionality. The prescaler simply does some math reducing the input frequency to a lower frequency. Good luck.
 
Ceitron is selling it on ebay as well, but with an apparent markup to account for shipping. Is about a wash either way, unless you are buying multiples. In the latter case, but direct from Ceitron's site and pay shipping once, with the chips at $29.99 each.
 
Hmmmm! It seems like more of these chips are failing recently. Wonder if there is a trend?
Both my G7700's had bad chips, and the two G6700's I worked on last year had bad chips too....Over the last decade, I have learned not to trust them.

I am going to buy some of those chips available at the moment so I have spares...
 
You have to wonder what causes a sudden spate of failure in these after 40 or so years of solid service. Generally, ICs are highly reliable unless subjected to external causes of failure (improper power supply, inputs out of safe range, ESD, harsh environment). I have multiple receivers and tuners using this chip and all have remained reliable thus far. Of course, I probably just smoked a chip posting that.

Then again, we are coming to find a lot of small signal transistors, which had long been thought to be nearly failure proof - if operated within spec - are simply going bad (typically going noisy) from age/environment. This is probably somehow related to less than ideal manufacturing, leading to an eventual breakdown even if kept within proper specifications. So much for solid state I guess.

This doesn't bode well for the future of a lot of vintage gear, as many parts are already "inobtanium" now or soon will be, and do not/will not have suitable substitutes, at least not without a lot of reverse engineering and effort as with the MSM5540. Most concerning for late 70's gear and onward that more heavily utilized specialty IC's and other application specific parts - chips most notably - that were once ubiquitous but are long since obsolete decades on.

We are presently getting a small window of opportunity for some of these parts which apparently were socked away for many years in warehouses around Asia, and for various reasons (ebay, Alibaba, internet semiconductor search sites and renewed interest in these old parts literally creating a market again) the infrastructure now exists for these wholesalers to get these chips sold to parties looking for them. This won't last indefinitely, as the stockpiles of these parts are not that deep to begin with in most cases.
 
Those Chips are selling like Hotcakes!!
I just bought two, that way both my G7700 and G9700 are covered, and at a pinch I could use in a customers unit for a premium price. I have a customer that has a G7700 and two G6700's....
 
You have to wonder what causes a sudden spate of failure in these after 40 or so years of solid service. Generally, ICs are highly reliable unless subjected to external causes of failure (improper power supply, inputs out of safe range, ESD, harsh environment). I have multiple receivers and tuners using this chip and all have remained reliable thus far. Of course, I probably just smoked a chip posting that.

Then again, we are coming to find a lot of small signal transistors, which had long been thought to be nearly failure proof - if operated within spec - are simply going bad (typically going noisy) from age/environment. This is probably somehow related to less than ideal manufacturing, leading to an eventual breakdown even if kept within proper specifications. So much for solid state I guess.

This doesn't bode well for the future of a lot of vintage gear, as many parts are already "inobtanium" now or soon will be, and do not/will not have suitable substitutes, at least not without a lot of reverse engineering and effort as with the MSM5540. Most concerning for late 70's gear and onward that more heavily utilized specialty IC's and other application specific parts - chips most notably - that were once ubiquitous but are long since obsolete decades on.

We are presently getting a small window of opportunity for some of these parts which apparently were socked away for many years in warehouses around Asia, and for various reasons (ebay, Alibaba, internet semiconductor search sites and renewed interest in these old parts literally creating a market again) the infrastructure now exists for these wholesalers to get these chips sold to parties looking for them. This won't last indefinitely, as the stockpiles of these parts are not that deep to begin with in most cases.
I don't think there's anything unusual about these chips failing with age, pretty much the same as many semiconductors produced around that time, some have longevity some don't....
This is why we need focus on a workaround here, there was a member looking into it, but the project stalled....
It can be done, and if there is enough demand, then its worth doing, just like the STK amp module project in the Pioneer forum and the Multiplex chip thats a problem in many Pioneer tuners.....
Modern solutions are available, it just takes time on the developers part.
 
I have a G-6700 where the AM worked and displayed fine. FM worked but no Quartz Lock and the display stuck at 188.8 no matter where the pointer was. Replaced the M5540 and nothing changed. Problem turned out to be the AN6821 on the F-3010 board.
Thank you for that :thumbsup: - we need solved cases like this to build up a knowledge base for these digital display issues. ;)
 
I have a G-6700 where the AM worked and displayed fine. FM worked but no Quartz Lock and the display stuck at 188.8 no matter where the pointer was. Replaced the M5540 and nothing changed. Problem turned out to be the AN6821 on the F-3010 board.
Nice work, pre-scaler board issue.......one to log in the list of issues for these hybrid tuners...
 
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