The Official *Technics SL-1200* Owners Club
- Thread starter quietcity
- Start date
I like that Tacet Test Record.
I can get any of my AT carts to balance on my Technics tables without using the extra 10 gram weight, but I use it so that I can screw the counterweight in as close to the fulcrum as possible, far less tonearm movement this way (swaying left to right).
Some say keeping the main counterweight as close to the pivot as possible can be important for inertia reasons. But, you know what? A cm prolly won't matter.
I went to a two-step heavier counterweight and anti-skate weights on my SME arm for that reason. Do I hear a difference? Nope. I feel it is a bit too much OCD.
Notice how close the counterweight is. And I have the anti-skate weight on the shortest ring to the pivot.
I use the Tacet and the HiFi News test records to dial things in. Getting the overhang correct is mucho importante on the Technics tables, so I use an ARC protractor- that plastic gauge they give you with the table gives you only a WAG (wild arse guess).
I notice a lot less tonearm swaying L to R on records with a lot of dynamic range in songs when the weight is up close to the fulcrum... same record with the counterweight back near the end of the arm and the tonearm is moving around like a violin bow !Some say keeping the main counterweight as close to the pivot as possible can be important for inertia reasons. But, you know what? A cm prolly won't matter.
I went to a two-step heavier counterweight and anti-skate weights on my SME arm for that reason. Do I hear a difference? Nope. I feel it is a bit too much OCD.
Notice how close the counterweight is. And I have the anti-skate weight on the shortest ring to the pivot.
I’m sorry if my ignorance caused feathers to be ruffled. I’m a turntable novice. I was interested in the Denon 103 because I run flea watt tube amps and Altec 604’s. Sometimes vinyl can sound a little lean. I thought something like a Denon 103 would add some tonal density compared to my AT 540ML cart. Maybe the question I should have asked is this: If you were running a Technics SL-1200GR2 with some flea watt amps and Altec 604 8H speakers, what cart would you run? I listen to blue note jazz ensemble records and I want a cart that will accentuate stand up bass etc. I thought a Denon 103 would be the ticket but it sounds like that it’s fraught with compatibility issues. I’d like to keep it in the Audio Technica or Denon family if possible. Thanks for your suggestions.
mrwood200
Well-Known Member
What is your budget? phono preamp?
A Denon 103R will work on a Technics 1200 model turntable. You need to add this additional weight to the tonearm to get the resonance into a proper range.
My experience: I prefer MC cartridges to MM ones. I've tried a lot of MM ones (from Ortofon, Audio-Technica, Grado). For my setup and my ears, the MC just sounds more natural and relaxed than the typically brighter MM.
Phono pre-amps: I tried several. Amazon cheapies, Schitt Mani, Pro-ject Phono Box DC. Though advised that these steps would mellow the MM sound, I still didn't like them.
The Technics has an AT 33SA on it now. I am currently using a Pro-ject Tube Box DS2. I went through several 12AX7-type tubes and ended up using a Raytheon 5751. I am happy. The journey took 5 years of trial and error. The 33Sa and Pro-ject TBDS2 combination has been running for 5 years now. I have two 33Sa cartridges set up as spares.
A Blue Note example for you!
Cannonball Adderley's "Somethin' Else." Blue Note 1595. King Record (Japan) pressing. GXK 8042. 1978.
Run-out: SILBT 7505
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At the risk of more ruffled feathers, I’m using Parks Audio Waxwing. Budget $500.
mrwood200
Well-Known Member
No ruffled feathers here - I have beautiful plumage.
I think you are on the right path to improve your sound!
You have made some v.good choices w/sl1200 & 604 = excellent kit. I would love to have both.
I like flea amps & dl-103 as well.
Your prior posts on 103 seem accurate - bit of a mismatch with TT, bit of work getting it setup, probably won’t get the best out of cartridge and/or TT, but will probably move your sound in the desired direction. The 103 can work (see above + some good posts on Hoffman forum), but there is better out there, and if you want to move on, NP.
RE: vinyl sounding thin (w/flea amps & 540ml)
As you also probably know, flea amps are going to offer a unique sound & challenge. Depending on the tubes & transformers, some sound elements may be weaker than others. I have a Darlington 1626 (photo) & DIY 13EM7 amp in rotation; my sound will improve/fill out when I switch to my ST-70 el34 amp. It might be a challenge to get the sound you want with a specific flea amp.
Is your 540ml stylus in good shape? This is another good choice you made, and can be a recommended cartridge for jazz. I am hesitant to recommend another AT cart if you are unsatisfied with this one.
Waxwing settings OK? I was curious about your phono to evaluate capacitance input (50pF) vs AT carts. As long as you have this digital bastard of a phono preamp (.........kidding), you might as well use it. Have you tried the DSP settings to get the sound you want?
If we have the flea amp & the 540ml is not going to work, and I am not going with another AT, you are not going with the 103 (& I am not recommending other denons besides 103), I am going off script with recommendation for Nagaoka MP-200; Ortofon Concorde Music Bronze for 2nd option.
I’ve got 1626 amp as well. Yes my 540ml is newish. I’m currently running a Pioneer PL-518 in spot where the 1200 will go when it arrives. I just got a Schiit Buf tube buffer in the mail. I dropped it in the chain after the Waxwing phono pre, before the amp and presto. A little more tonal density that I was looking for with my records. I swapped out the stock tube and threw in an Amperex Holland Bugle Boy 6DJ8. Even more meat on the bone. So it looks like I found a solution that will help me tune my record playback when the Technics shows up.
Good luck with the Technics. Are you going with a Denon DL-103R?
You know, eventually, you prolly will.
Yes, despite having some friends that are smarter than me that are telling me not to. I never claimed to know what I’m doing.Good luck with the Technics. Are you going with a Denon DL-103R?
You know, eventually, you prolly will.
What are these "smart friends" saying about the Denon use on a Technics table? And is the problem only a Denon match?
Inquiring minds want to know!
I have an audio engineer friend who will remain nameless who says the arm is a bad match for the Denon 103 and that the 103 is an antiquated cart and there’s way better carts out there. But “way better” can be a bit nebulous.What are these "smart friends" saying about the Denon use on a Technics table? And is the problem only a Denon match?
Inquiring minds want to know!
But he says that an Audio-Technica 33 line is okay?
Well, it all comes down to your ears. I'm just saying you can run a Denon 103R on a Technics, with an additional auxiliary counterweight. It's not a difficult procedure.
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For me, the Denon 103R has a more natural-sounding midrange-to-treble transition than the Audio-Technica 33Sa. But really, the 33Sa is a nice cartridge on the Technics. Great for female vocals.
Roberta Flack. "Killing Me Softly." Atlantic Records. SD7271. Richmond Pressing. 1973.
Runout: ST-A-732915-HHH-1 AT PR D.
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The new 1200 comes with an auxiliary counterweight yes? Or will I need something else?But he says that an Audio-Technica 33 line is okay?
Well, it all comes down to your ears. I'm just saying you can run a Denon 103R on a Technics, with an additional auxiliary counterweight. It's not a difficult procedure.