The Official *Technics SL-1200* Owners Club

[Mr Boochie]

Crazy how you can hear Roberta whisper a countdown at 4:15, during that brief interlude. Easier to hear with headphones.

It's really a great pressing for a mass-produced LP.

 

[Cambo5150]

Hello. I’ve ordered a Technics SL-1200GR2. My first expensive turntable. (At least it’s expensive to me). I currently have an Audio Technica 540ML cart waiting. But I really want to try a Denon DL-103 or 103R. I ordered an AT 15g head shell. If I use the 15g head shell and the included Technics auxiliary counterweight, will I be able to run a 103 cart effectively? Thanks for the info.

 

[krautmaster]

Hello. I’ve ordered a Technics SL-1200GR2. My first expensive turntable. (At least it’s expensive to me). I currently have an Audio Technica 540ML cart waiting. But I really want to try a Denon DL-103 or 103R. I ordered an AT 15g head shell. If I use the 15g head shell and the included Technics auxiliary counterweight, will I be able to run a 103 cart effectively? Thanks for the info.

Why use a cart with an ancient conical stylus profile ? There are better sounding Line Contact, Micro Ridge, and Shibata styluses out there for less $$ than the Denon 103. Also that Denon is a pretty low compliance cart so you would need that heavy headshell and not use the 10 gram counter weight. Also what phono preamp are you using ?

I alternate between an Ortofon Concorde Music Bronze and the new AT-VM740xML on my SL-1200GR2

 

[Cambo5150]

Why use a cart with an ancient conical stylus profile ? There are better sounding Line Contact, Micro Ridge, and Shibata styluses out there for less $$ than the Denon 103. Also that Denon is a pretty low compliance cart so you would need that heavy headshell and not use the 10 gram counter weight. Also what phono preamp are you using ?

I alternate between an Ortofon Concorde Music Bronze and the new AT-VM740xML on my SL-1200GR2
View attachment 3769612

I’m new to this don’t always make the best decisions. And I’m still interested in doing despite your post. I’m curious to hear what the Denon will sound like in my system. Even you though it’s less than ideal according to you. But I appreciate your feedback.

 

[mrwood200]

@Mr_Boochie ? Do you run a 103 on your sl1200? (see Cambo5150 question above)

....don’t always make the best decisions.

NP here. 103 is a classic & can make a fine noise. Plus you have the ML for options.
I have both 103 and 103R, but do not use them on my sl1200, so I cannot speak to headshell/subweight combo.

That said, krautmaster is our Team Technics leader, so his reference to 'heavy headshell no aux weight' is going in the right direction.
I tried to get my arm mass to ~25g. Your heavy headshell gets you to 19.5?

 

[Mr Boochie]

@Mr_Boochie ? Do you run a 103 on your sl1200? (see Cambo5150 question above).

No. I have an Audio-Technica 33SA on my Technics. The tonearm has additional weight on the counterbalance.

The measure arm resonance is 8Hz.

 

[krautmaster]

No. I have an Audio-Technica 33SA on my Technics. The tonearm has additional weight on the counterbalance.

The measure arm resonance is 8Hz.

I use a similar AT-33xMLD and the 10 gram weight on my SL-1300G, a marvelous combination

 

[Mr Boochie]

I am running a Denon DL-103SA (similar to the 103R) on my SME 3009 Type II Improved arm (which has an even lower mass than the Technics).

I needed to add a heavier counterweight (138 grams vs. the standard 110 grams). A heavier anti-skate weight (4.5 grams vs 3 grams). A heavier solid Sony headshell (total cartridge and headshell weight is 17.8 grams). Resonance - 8Hz, also.

 

[mrwood200]

I am running a Denon DL-103SA (similar to the 103R) on my SME 3009 Type II Improved arm (which has an even lower mass than the Technics).

Thanks - good input AND photos!
I knew you had a 103 in circulation but forgot the TT.

 

[Mr Boochie]

Thanks - good input AND photos!
I knew you had a 103 in circulation but forgot the TT.

A little tune from the Sony.

I Go Crazy.
Flesh For Lulu -"I Go Crazy." MCA Records MCA-23736. 12-inch, 33RPM single. Artisan, Gloversville, NY pressing. 1987.
Run-out: MCA 6673-ASR 2 [Artisan logo] ⧈-G-⧈ 1

 

[mkane]

@Mr_Boochie ? Do you run a 103 on your sl1200? (see Cambo5150 question above)


NP here. 103 is a classic & can make a fine noise. Plus you have the ML for options.
I have both 103 and 103R, but do not use them on my sl1200, so I cannot speak to headshell/subweight combo.

That said, krautmaster is our Team Technics leader, so his reference to 'heavy headshell no aux weight' is going in the right direction.
I tried to get my arm mass to ~25g. Your heavy headshell gets you to 19.5?

sort of . you cant just add up grams and expect it to come out right.

 

[mkane]

^and the bearings are screaming mercy

 

[Mr Boochie]

sort of . you cant just add up grams and expect it to come out right.

No. I use a test record to check the resulting resonant frequency. I shoot for 8-10Hz.

You adjust the weights accordingly.

 

[Mr Boochie]

^and the bearings are screaming mercy

Not if the arm is balanced. It's like any other tonearm, be it OEM light or heavy, right out of the factory. The tracking force is still the same, depending on the cartridge.

 

[mkane]

Not if the arm is balanced. It's like any other tonearm, be it OEM light or heavy, right out of the factory. The tracking force is still the same, depending on the cartridge.

so bearing size isn't a factor?

 

[Mr Boochie]

so bearing size isn't a factor?

I have no idea. I've been doing this for a while and never had a tonearm's bearing wear out.

Sorry!

 

[mkane]

No. I use a test record to check the resulting resonant frequency. I shoot for 8-10Hz.

You adjust the weights accordingly.

what I'm saying is if you add 10 grams to a 12 gram tonearm doesn't mean its eff mass is now 22grams. Its a bit more complicated.

 

[Mr Boochie]

what I'm saying is if you add 10 grams to a 12 gram tonearm doesn't mean its eff mass is now 22grams. Its a bit more complicated.

Maybe I'm not understanding.

Yes, the effective mass is more. That's what needs to be done to use these types of cartridges.

But the stress on the pivot's bearings may not be that much different, as the tracking weight and movement of that arm are about the same.

I use a test record to check the resonance, tracking ability, and anti-skating settings — not calculations or graphs based on the tonearm manufacturer's data. Does that matter? I really don't know, but I have no issues with the setups.

 

[mkane]

Maybe I'm not understanding.

Yes, the effective mass is more. That's what needs to be done to use these types of cartridges.

But the stress on the pivot's bearings may not be that much different, as the tracking weight and movement of that arm are about the same.

I use a test record to check the resonance, tracking ability, and anti-skating settings — not calculations or graphs based on the tonearm manufacturer's data. Does that matter? I really don't know, but I have no issues with the setups.

@Mr_Boochie ? Do you run a 103 on your sl1200? (see Cambo5150 question above)


NP here. 103 is a classic & can make a fine noise. Plus you have the ML for options.
I have both 103 and 103R, but do not use them on my sl1200, so I cannot speak to headshell/subweight combo.

That said, krautmaster is our Team Technics leader, so his reference to 'heavy headshell no aux weight' is going in the right direction.
I tried to get my arm mass to ~25g. Your heavy headshell gets you to 19.5?

my post was aimed at a post like the one above. Getting a 12g eff mass tonearm to a 25g eff mass tonearm will take more than 13 grams.

A case where 12+13 doesn't=25

 

[Mr Boochie]

my post was aimed at a post like the one above. Getting a 12g eff mass tonearm to a 25g eff mass tonearm will take more than 13 grams.

Okay. Sorry, I misunderstood you.