Pretty interesting discussion
Audiofreak71
Audiofreak71
The Point of diminishing returns an interesting discussion
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That’s true, whatever makes one happy whether a dumpster dive system or a six figure system that’s all that matters Imo.
Audiofreak71
grillebilly
Empty Head
Yeah, completely true except when it isn't. Getting addicted to a hobby and overspending is a real thing. Like a drug addict chasing his next high.
Yep. Hobbies are like that and I am as guilty (within my means) as anyone.
And, I'm good with it.
grillebilly
Empty Head
Nope, not as guilty as anyone, maybe as most of us here, because you know and respect the difference. But I get your point. I don't need a lot of the things I buy, should really spend the money elsewhere, but I worked for it and it makes me happy.
Exactly.
I'm certainly aware that diminishing returns do exist and I for one am glad that my points in many areas are somewhat low. Regardless of what they are, every individual sets their own and they are very subjective, so they are very much "too each, their own".
That being said, we have an consumption based economy driven by wants and not needs, so there are endless pressures out there to "upgrade" and impress. Buy what satisfies YOU, not others, because it really is only about you alone and no one else.
That being said, we have an consumption based economy driven by wants and not needs, so there are endless pressures out there to "upgrade" and impress. Buy what satisfies YOU, not others, because it really is only about you alone and no one else.
Johnny 007
Active Member
It's all fun, and I'm pretty sure most audiophiles don't spend money they can't afford to spend.
RunOutGroove
Addicted Member
I think that it all depends on what the thing in question is... A friend recently got some $6-7k (or perhaps more) open baffle speakers that sound like nothing else that I've ever heard. I doubt that sound can be had for much less... Then again, I think that there are some products that if they make a difference at all, don't make enough difference to be a very sound buy. I very much doubt that that my friend, not that he has these great speaker that are running with really great tube amplification and a up to the moment high end DAC on the front and were to spend another $6k on some inch thick speaker cables would reap anywhere near the benefit of the cost of the other stuff that he put into the system. If there's any difference at all, it's likely to be only a tiny increment, which shows to me that at least with certain kinds of things there really is a point of diminishing returns.
But the other question is , have you tried the inch thick cables or high end Dac , interconnects etc etc with the $6-$7k speakers to see if there’s an incremental gain or huge gain?. Imo the only way to find these things out is to try it if that is something that someone is searching to do .
If someone is satisfied with music coming out of 2 speakers that’s ok and theirs a budget for that, if someone wants to hear every little detail and feel as if they’re sitting front row of the most famous orchestra in the world there is a budget for that as well and everything in between. I have learned throughout the years that I cannot speculate and assume that something will or willl not work I have to try it and find out if I’m searching for it.
Audiofreak71
There is defnitely a point where increased quality become very expensive for little gain, this is true everywhere.
The problem is the human interface -- we have essentially zero audio memory and we can train our ears. The result is that "different" is sometimes confused with "better" -- it's impossible for a human to compare a past audio event with a current one, we just don't have a mechanism in our brains to do that.
Doesn't cost much to move up to a decent turntable from a cheapo USB one that has incredible wow and flutter (and they do, a buddy of mine bought one.). However, you don't get twice the improvement for twice the cost of a better table since even an entry level table from the 80's is pretty good, and for most people the differences are inaudible once you get up to the upper level ones.
Just the nature of reality.
The problem is the human interface -- we have essentially zero audio memory and we can train our ears. The result is that "different" is sometimes confused with "better" -- it's impossible for a human to compare a past audio event with a current one, we just don't have a mechanism in our brains to do that.
Doesn't cost much to move up to a decent turntable from a cheapo USB one that has incredible wow and flutter (and they do, a buddy of mine bought one.). However, you don't get twice the improvement for twice the cost of a better table since even an entry level table from the 80's is pretty good, and for most people the differences are inaudible once you get up to the upper level ones.
Just the nature of reality.
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RunOutGroove
Addicted Member
Fair enough... I actually haven't heard the difference that $6k cables like that can make over ones that are merely very good (much better than say Monster cable stuff that cost just a couple of hundreds dollars or less. I'll put in this way though, if I had a system that had those great $6k+ open baffle speakers and other components on the same level and if I had even more money to spend, I doubt that I would be cables that expensive. Anything that I'd get would be a bit of a gamble as to whether it would improve the system enough for me to really care about it. I would probably make the gamble that some other kind of upgrade would make more of a difference... or perhaps I would say that no other upgrade was needed...
That may be true you may or may not spend that last bit on cables however, if you had gone that far in your journey and you still weren’t hearing what you want after you replaced everything except the cables you may just go that route. I’m speaking from experience here because I did exactly that , I replaced everything and still had this slight graininess that really irritated me , I was a cable naysayer so I’m my mind it just couldn’t be the cables.
A friend of mine let me try a power cable Cable and things improved, next some interconnects And even more improvement , I said why not at this point and changed up the speaker cables and voila , perfectIon (imo) right in front of me and was the key to what I was missing. I still don’t believe it’s necessary to spend an arm and a leg for cables but good quality ones can make a difference Imo.
Audiofreak71
RunOutGroove
Addicted Member
"I still don’t believe it’s necessary to spend an arm and a leg for cables but good quality ones can make a difference Imo." That all makes sense but it seems that returns are more quickly diminishing with that stuff than with some other things, which is the point that I'm making. it seems silly to invest an lot in a system and then get the very cheapest cables, but the very most expensive ones seem like they may not do enough to be worth it. Better to get excellent, but not ultra-expensive cables and then if you have still have some money burning a hole in your pocket, find something else to upgrade...
Another point that I meant to make in my last post is I believe that cables or gear should match the price point of the gear you have, so with that said say you have a $10k system I believe good quality cables be it store bought or DIY may be sufficient enough but you still have to experiment to find out what works for you (synergy is everything with a good sounding system). With an ultra high end system say $100k then there are cables that fall into that price point and imo makes sense and on that level you still need to experiment to find what cables work for your system.
Audiofreak71
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