IMO They werent /arent my fave's either but that was a long ,long time ago and they werent in a good room at all so the variables were unfavorable to make a good judgement .
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The true reason why vintage JBLs are so popular in Japan
- Thread starter plam
- Start date
IMO They werent /arent my fave's either but that was a long ,long time ago and they werent in a good room at all so the variables were unfavorable to make a good judgement .
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bjlefebvre
Super Member
I've lived in Japan for a total of five years off and on and the original poster's comments make total sense to me. For a certain type hobbyist, buying a pig's ear of a speaker and turning it into a silk purse is a mark of pride. Why not? Any fool can go out and buy a well-reviewed speaker and plug it in and make it sound good.
It also makes sense of me, knowing what little I do of the culture, that such a thing would attract such a herd of copycats that the price for such speakers would skyrocket, meaning that the buyer has to pay MORE for the pig's ear in question just for the "privilege" of customizing them.
I say f it. I'm going to Audio Union in the next week or so to buy a set of Dali Zensor 1s that are half the price they are in the US despite being brand new.:thmbsp:
It also makes sense of me, knowing what little I do of the culture, that such a thing would attract such a herd of copycats that the price for such speakers would skyrocket, meaning that the buyer has to pay MORE for the pig's ear in question just for the "privilege" of customizing them.
I say f it. I'm going to Audio Union in the next week or so to buy a set of Dali Zensor 1s that are half the price they are in the US despite being brand new.:thmbsp:
bjlefebvre
Super Member
Oh yeah - Beatles records considered audiophile, as are some Rolling Stones, David Bowie, etc. I've been surprised while digging through some stacks of used records here to find records priced equivalent to $400 or higher just strewn in with the regular lot. First pressing Beatles, early Blue Note jazz, etc - they put records in the normal stacks that would be behind bulletproof glass in the US.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Nice.... I thought that part was funny.
As for me, when I listen to Japanese music, it's only through British and east coast speakers. No JBL (OR Klipsch for that matter). But people in other parts of the world always say that us east-coasters are lazy and too-dependent on our comfort zones.
But if it's all about "taming the savage beast", then why is Kendrick Audio over there selling tamed beasts hand over fist with a long wait-list?
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Just proves the Illiterati and *some audiophiles* for lack of an unflattering term for a *specific subset * of the hobby some folks will buy anthing .
OTOH I've heard the Audio-Technica ATH-M50x in the store and thought they were real decent for the money never put any Beats phones on but I otherwise like my Senns pros and some other decent cans I've heard .
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really :
You mean run away from these THX pm3 approved JBL mixing and monitering midfield monitors in an aucoustally controlled space we have here ?
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR6332L
OTOH there are and have been some monitors I would run away from over the last xx yrs. or so and probably more inaccurate overpriced audiophile colored speakers than anthing else outside of the JBL Everest DD xxx line or some vintage JBL with a decent sub or two or some of the vintage Infinities or any number of presumably very decent vintage Hi Fi speakers I never heard but would like to ouside of the model19's I owned at one time back some years that autta sound real good with a powred sub or two like the JBLs here .
OFC I dont know how old Dr. Tools remarks are and I can say definitly good monitors have come a long way in a short amount of time and you dont have to break the bank to humble some well regarded audiophile speakers ( or some older monitors) with them especialy with a powered sub or two .
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Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
Just proves the Illiterati and *some audiophiles* for lack of an unflattering term for a *specific subset * of the hobby some folks will buy anthing .
OTOH I've heard the Audio-Technica ATH-M50x in the store and thought they were real decent for the money never put any Beats phones on but I otherwise like my Senns pros and some other decent cans I've heard .
"People aren't hearing all the music." ... He said the same thing in his Beats ads. I would've expected better from an audiophile dignitary such as Dr. Dre.
In the early to mid '60's, I think a lot of studio engineers would master recordings through an industry-standard monitor, and then through a 4" car radio speaker taken out of a Volkswagen Beatle or something like that. This was intended, as they wanted to make sure it sounded good through the kind of rinky-dink, run-of-the-mill cheap speakers that the average radio listener was hearing.
But me, I like a speaker that serves incredibly-average recordings as well as it serves the audiophile stuff.
G.T.
I think thats an old maybe (2012) Beats vs ATH comparison likley its pretty safe to say the outcome was in favor of the Beats product at that time .
FWIW an identical photo I found on Google was uploaded to Head Fi Feb 10, 2012 according to the data I was able to hack outta the web page attachment I just wanted to make sure of its *approxamate date* B4 the Beats thing with Apple ........
I belive it I know a guy that used to mix and dub on full range 4.5 inchers in sealed boxes for local ad buys /commercials and stuff.
FWIW we (used to do ) do part of the car /vehicle mix 16 bit candidate evaluation on a close to 5,000 watt system in a vehicle with phatt subs and on conventional midfi 5.1 but with some differnt techniques and proofing we use now we feel it's not necessary anymore here .
Thats unobtainium either a speaker is accurate or it is not something in beteween serves as lot of folks well accurate reference speakers are *not for everone or suicidal CD/mp3 mixes or mid fi AVRs or whatever and usually out of the audiophile wheelhose anyway with some exceptions of course and then there is the room ........
We had to get a THX pm3 appoved 800wpc amp to go with the newest likewise approved large JBL midfield passive monitors the othewise decent not normally underpowered conventioal hi fi /stereo amp couldent do the job .
More on the speaker thing yes accurate speakers can devastate a poor mix and most suicidal CD/mp3 mixes thats one reason most of my stuff is *more recently * since ~ 2009 are 24 bit flat mixes (digital copies) sourced or origionally sourced from the labels before they ever made a CD /MP3 mix BIG improvement over the suicidal mixes .
Oh no mp3 here either.
IMO some of the best mixes are the 24 bit digitized flat tape mixes from the vinyl days.depite only being able to make ~ 8 bits or ~650 -700 kbps .
OTOH nothing wrong with good vinyl either it beats a poor CD mix anytime .
FWIW I enjoyed my Warfie w70 D's for the good while that I owned them IMO you can do a lot worse today for a lot of money .
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4343
Super Member
VCR was first Digital Audio Recorder.
I used to be able to look at a video monitor and tell what sampling frequency a tape was. 44.1 had a straight vertical line running top to bottom, while the video locked 44.056 had a dashed line. Technically, the video output is not NTSC, since it has no color. For CD recording@ 44.1 it was also exactly 60 Hz, not 59.94, although your monitor doesn't care. 44.056 is the sample rate used when 59.94Hz was required for picture lock with NTSC.
A lot of the consumer video DAC's were just 14-bit, some used a non-linear encoding scheme to save even more bandwidth. They worked OK for the era I guess. I don't know if Sony used the 14-bit system, that was more of a Phillips thing, mostly because VHS did not have the bandwidth to support 16-bit, while BetaMax did. They may have had to go 14-bit when they crammed digital audio into an 8MM deck, I'm sure that's where I saw the non-linear system.
Pro systems all used 16-bit on highly refined U-Matic transports, which were used with very thin tape to fit 75 minutes onto a cassette. (Normal broadcast decks could only handle 60 minute tapes.) Not a co-inkydink that CD's maxed out @ 75 minutes, although they can hold 80 nowadays.
I used to be able to look at a video monitor and tell what sampling frequency a tape was. 44.1 had a straight vertical line running top to bottom, while the video locked 44.056 had a dashed line. Technically, the video output is not NTSC, since it has no color. For CD recording@ 44.1 it was also exactly 60 Hz, not 59.94, although your monitor doesn't care. 44.056 is the sample rate used when 59.94Hz was required for picture lock with NTSC.
A lot of the consumer video DAC's were just 14-bit, some used a non-linear encoding scheme to save even more bandwidth. They worked OK for the era I guess. I don't know if Sony used the 14-bit system, that was more of a Phillips thing, mostly because VHS did not have the bandwidth to support 16-bit, while BetaMax did. They may have had to go 14-bit when they crammed digital audio into an 8MM deck, I'm sure that's where I saw the non-linear system.
Pro systems all used 16-bit on highly refined U-Matic transports, which were used with very thin tape to fit 75 minutes onto a cassette. (Normal broadcast decks could only handle 60 minute tapes.) Not a co-inkydink that CD's maxed out @ 75 minutes, although they can hold 80 nowadays.
Gang-Twanger
Resident Wharfedaliophool
G.T.
I think thats an old maybe (2012) Beats vs ATH comparison likley its pretty safe to say the outcome was in favor of the Beats product at that time .
FWIW an identical photo I found on Google was uploaded to Head Fi Feb 10, 2012 according to the data I was able to hack outta the web page attachment I just wanted to make sure of its *approxamate date* B4 the Beats thing with Apple ........
I belive it I know a guy that used to mix and dub on full range 4.5 inchers in sealed boxes for local ad buys /commercials and stuff.
FWIW we (used to do ) do part of the car /vehicle mix 16 bit candidate evaluation on a close to 5,000 watt system in a vehicle with phatt subs and on conventional midfi 5.1 but with some differnt techniques and proofing we use now we feel it's not necessary anymore here .
Thats unobtainium either a speaker is accurate or it is not something in beteween serves as lot of folks well accurate reference speakers are *not for everone or suicidal CD/mp3 mixes or mid fi AVRs or whatever and usually out of the audiophile wheelhose anyway with some exceptions of course and then there is the room ........
We had to get a THX pm3 appoved 800wpc amp to go with the newest likewise approved large JBL midfield passive monitors the othewise decent not normally underpowered conventioal hi fi /stereo amp couldent do the job .
More on the speaker thing yes accurate speakers can devastate a poor mix and most suicidal CD/mp3 mixes thats one reason most of my stuff is *more recently * since ~ 2009 are 24 bit flat mixes (digital copies) sourced or origionally sourced from the labels before they ever made a CD /MP3 mix BIG improvement over the suicidal mixes .
Oh no mp3 here either.
IMO some of the best mixes are the 24 bit digitized flat tape mixes from the vinyl days.depite only being able to make ~ 8 bits or ~650 -700 kbps .
OTOH nothing wrong with good vinyl either it beats a poor CD mix anytime .
FWIW I enjoyed my Warfie w70 D's for the good while that I owned them IMO you can do a lot worse today for a lot of money .
Yeah, that W*0D series was great. Wharfedale hadn't taken their foray into mid/upper-mid-fi territory at that point. I have the W60D's.
One thing about the old Wharfedales like mine from the early to late '60's, they were a product of the all-analog, tube-driven world and sound best when powered by said tubes (The W70D and it's brethren being a bit less-sensitive, though they still love tubes or warm, tubelike solid-state gear), so the Dolby Digital/THX world just doesn't apply in their case, not unless the earlier-stated conditions are met first. That's not to say they don't appreciate a good 24bit digital transfer from quality 1st-pressing vinyl or analog masters.
But they aren't a "warts and all" speaker. Live/actual performances shouldn't be grating to the ears as far as I'm concerned. If they are, I'm standing too-close (
)111. I love albums like Led Zeppelin II and Toys In The Attic, and neither are audiophile gems, but they're fantastic albums nonetheless, and I want to make the most of them (I swear, Eddie Kramer must have been drunk or high when he mixed side one of LZII... Side two sounds great though, at least through my system).I'm big on timbre. I like speakers that can reproduce instruments well. Horns, guitars, piano and analog-based electronic keyboard instruments, as well as vocals. As much as I might like the response characteristics of a lot of modern speakers, it is not easy to find one that has that spot-on timbral quality. I like accuracy as much as the next guy, but it must be musical and engaging as well. Also, a lot of modern speakers tend to reflect their driver materials. If a speaker has a bextrene, polypropylene, or even kevlar cone (or some other man-made material), it had better wow the crap out of me, otherwise it'll never be a part of my main setup. I've really grown accustomed to the wool/paper-based cones of the original Wharfedale drivers, and even modern Wharfedale speakers don't have the timbral accuracy of their old models (and Wharfedale is making some awesome speakers these days). Because of this, I fear my W90's will remain in place permanently. I'd love to hear the modern Airedale Heritage sometime, though I guarantee it sounds little like the original Airedale in terms of timbral accuracy (It has a kevlar midwoofer, and I imagine a kevlar woofer as well). The bass and high frequency response/extension is probably major though.
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^^^^^ GT ,
YEA I cant see high amplitude THX digital on any of the old girls I dont think the the vintage warfies would take to kindly to that at all .
OTOH they are smooth as butter thats no lie
and you could do worse for some decent money and they should be not be hard to
put modern drivers in with a new baffle board otoh they had the old rear mount drivers so shim ring might be the thing there on the any woffer /mid woffer baffle so the cloth can clear. you could rear mount textile domes I did that with mine it was a nice upgrade over the monster alnico tweeters
and the warfies had the screwy screw./bolt patterns of thier own also OTOH those old girls would be the ultimate Dianna Krall speaker no lie
Yammie has a new 30wpc intgrated and so does Pioneer that might work they supposed to be dang good .
YEA I cant see high amplitude THX digital on any of the old girls I dont think the the vintage warfies would take to kindly to that at all .
OTOH they are smooth as butter thats no lie
and you could do worse for some decent money and they should be not be hard to
put modern drivers in with a new baffle board otoh they had the old rear mount drivers so shim ring might be the thing there on the any woffer /mid woffer baffle so the cloth can clear. you could rear mount textile domes I did that with mine it was a nice upgrade over the monster alnico tweeters
and the warfies had the screwy screw./bolt patterns of thier own also OTOH those old girls would be the ultimate Dianna Krall speaker no lie
Yammie has a new 30wpc intgrated and so does Pioneer that might work they supposed to be dang good .
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SuperLead100
"These go to 11"
this was true of the 70's and 80's as well. They would bounce the mix between the main monitors and the not so good sounding speakers to get a certain level of consistency of sound. The theory being that the vast majority of music was listened to on less than desirable equipment; ie car radios, transistor radios and relatively cheap stuff.
Zonker92
All shiny and chrome
:lmao: Trust G-T to turn a JBL thread into a Wharfedale thread! :lmao: (Just razzing you, mang.
)
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frperdurabo
AK Member
The late Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg said the Japanese loved vintage Altec and JBLs because traditional Japanese music is hugely dynamic - he cited kodo drumming as an example. But the OPs explanation fits what I know of the Japanese character, too.
I would guess that Klipsch didn't get as much traction in Japan as in the US because of different house construction. When hi fi first because a big deal, Japan was not the wealthy country it has become, (and import duties were high) so only rich people would be likely to buy high level equipment. The average house in Japan now is probably pretty small by american standards , the mansions of the very well to do would have been bigger (but look at the room size in those Donald McRitchie pictures which were wealthy people's houses). They probably would have been traditional wood construction, and often with shoji (paper and wood lathe) dividers and tatami floors. Any speaker that requires the walls and floor of the room to be part of horn loading is not going to sound at its best. Obviously almost all speakers take advantage of room loading, but the Klipschhorn requires it.
Furthermore, in Japan, presentation is very important -- even the lowliest objects need to be aesthetically pleasing if they are to be appreciated. And early Klipschs were fairly rustic in comparison with JBLs and Altec.
Additionally, I agree with the point made that the japanese enthusiasm for audio is much broader than the JBL focus suggested by the OP. If memory serves, Asia (which in consumer terms in the latter part of the twentieth century largely meant Japan, though it later expanded) was the main market for lots of british equipment. The various Tannoy, Quad, Rodgers LS 3 5a and so on reissues that came out in the 80s and 90s sold very well there.
I don't think that my comments are particularly controversial, nor do they require any japanese credentials, but I did grow up in Japan, for the little that's worth in terms of proving anything I've said.
I'm glad this thread seems to have returned more to the original topic.
Furthermore, in Japan, presentation is very important -- even the lowliest objects need to be aesthetically pleasing if they are to be appreciated. And early Klipschs were fairly rustic in comparison with JBLs and Altec.
Additionally, I agree with the point made that the japanese enthusiasm for audio is much broader than the JBL focus suggested by the OP. If memory serves, Asia (which in consumer terms in the latter part of the twentieth century largely meant Japan, though it later expanded) was the main market for lots of british equipment. The various Tannoy, Quad, Rodgers LS 3 5a and so on reissues that came out in the 80s and 90s sold very well there.
I don't think that my comments are particularly controversial, nor do they require any japanese credentials, but I did grow up in Japan, for the little that's worth in terms of proving anything I've said.
I'm glad this thread seems to have returned more to the original topic.
Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
Realizing the end goal would be a letdown, Tomlinmgt-son. Like a road trip to the Grand Canyon with a limo full of hookers, the joy is in the "journey" itself.
Pio1980
AK Member
A trashy distraction from a journey thru an exotic landscape isn't the simile I would have chosen.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Porkloin
Oscar Heil Groupie
Re-Read it
The key difference being the use of the word "to" instead of the word "through (thru)" . The more I think about it, the better the analogy becomes, especially when it interjects "trashy" into a discussion that attempts to turn my beloved hobby/distraction into something noble.
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bimotarich
New Member
I have lived in Japan for 25 years… and find everything in this post pretty much is at least consistent with what I have seen in Japan… Jazz friends love old JBL, Classical friends love old Tannoy, Klipsch is not a thing here (really has never had much of a distributorship here and most of their speakers were large and often required corners… and walls neither of which many traditional Japanese rooms had… I am eyeing a pair of 4343Bs… might have to pull the trigger… but gotta sell some gear first...