Then and now: playing a record isn't the same thing as it once was

[pbinpb57]

Arkay and all...right on brothers. "Glorious sounds they are!" I couldn't, for the life of me, understand why my folks were so "careful" with their albums. When I was a kid my parents would listen to all kinds of music...Jack Jones, Mel Torme, Wes Montgomery, Miles Davis, Gil Evans, The Dorsey Brothers, Stan Getz, Man of La Mancha, Camelot, even the Victory at Sea collection. ****, my mom first got me hooked on Fleetwood Mac, Tower of Power, Santana..(she loved "Jingo"). Now I realize that my folks were pretty hip!
It's pretty ironic...you see other people's rituals or "idiocincracies" and think that they are completely whacked but eventually you follow suit!!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[gkimeng]

Other than having to find replacements for various record-related products and supplies that have disappeared from the market over the years, I don't think I've made any significant changes in the way I play, store or care for records in the past 30 or 40 years.

 

[theophile]

I guess I've always been of the 'Get the Hardware Right' school of thought.

Right turntable.Right Arm.Right Cartridge etc
My concessions to 'audiophila' are aftermarket mats,in my case the Boston Audio Mat 2 cabon/graphite mat.The Boston Audio Tuneblocks SE and Tuneplates.The use of 8 Clearaudio Magix.The HRS analogue Disk record weight.
That is it.
No Shakti Stones.No Brilliant Pebbles.No Bybee Purifiers.No cable elevators.

I don't clean my records.The stylus gets a dunk in a Magic Eraser every month or so.No dust or crud accumulates on my stylus.Of there is a crumb of something or a hair on my record,the carbon-fibre brush gets used.

Other than that,my 'ritual' is getting the record out of the sleeve,playing it,then putting it back.

 

[AUdubon5425]

I grew up playing records on budget players. What I would have liked to see was the turntable my Dad had through the late 1960's. The vast majority of my records back then were his old 45s, and they were scratched/worn to various degrees when I got them. Some of my first acquisitions in the early 80's are scratched - hey I was under 10 years old.

My cleaning method is the only thing that's significantly changed in 20 years of having a decent turntable. I remember buying those silicone record cleaning cloths at Radio Shack when I was 12, then being horrified that they made my new copy of the White Album sound noticeably worse on my Soundesign cheapo stereo (now that's pretty bad.) The RS cleaning kit with the fluid and spongy black plastic pad (that you filled with fluid from the top) wasn't much better, at least nothing sounded worse.

 

[audiojones]

Never Turned Away...

Other than having to find replacements for various record-related products and supplies that have disappeared from the market over the years, I don't think I've made any significant changes in the way I play, store or care for records in the past 30 or 40 years.

Same here. My folks had a great system in the 60's and they would always let us kids use it (although I was more interested in it and the music than my brother and sisters were). The proper record care technique was shown to me at a very young age and I always took decent care of my records. When my Dad gave me his old Garrard turntable, I spent some money on a decent Shure cartridge for it and a Discwasher to keep the dust out of the grooves. The Garrard is long gone and there have been many many turntables since, but I still use the Discwasher and I still have all of my albums from those days...all quite playable.

Although I'm more careful about arm setup now, I don't really obsess over the slightest details nor do I spend thousands on high end carts - a decent Shure or AT is just fine with me. I never replaced my albums with CD's, and I've never stopped listening to and collecting records. CD's are just fine and I have many of them, but to me albums are just the way I've always preferred to listen to music. There's nothing to get back into or rediscover for me, I guess I just never left

 

[Ohighway]

Hey Arkay, nice post. Contrary to all the other responses here that I've seen ..... I have a different take on this. As I suspect I'm "going against the grain" here I hope it won't turn into open flaming ..... but if someone feels like lobbing hateful stuff my way... so be it.

Just a few comments:

TODAY, much is different. I've become one of those weird fanatics I used to read about. I spend hours tweaking and adjusting my turntable system, using tools like an RCM that cost more than I would have dreamed of spending back then, and "overkill" methods like laser levels and a surveyor's level, to ensure optimal set-up, as far as I can achieve it. Once I think I have it right, I'll spend more time using test records to do final "dialling in" so it sounds best. I pay attention to what is underneath the player, attempting to deal optimally with those nasty, even unheard (and sometimes heard through a stethoscope) vibrations. I wouldn't dream of playing anything on a turntable that wasn't "set up right", as far as my ability and my patience allow.

Over the years I've graduated from a fairly crude setup when I lived at home, to having what I consider "decent" equipment. Not TOTL, but pretty nice, solid performing items. Care in the handling of records, tapes, equipment, etc. is warranted, and is common sense IMO. It has been ever since the late 60's for me.

However I've noticed a real irony the whole "Audiophile" scene. I consider an Audiophile (in the root sense of the word as you termed it) to be someone who loves music, and likes having a system that (in their opinion) reproduces music in a manner that approaches being indistinguishable from the original performance."Close your eyes and you're there" so to speak. I think that's what audiophile is supposed to mean.

Unfortunately in my experience, Audiophile has become a code word for "endless compulsive tweaker". Yes proper equipment selection, setup, and adjustment is valid and valuable. But in most cases I never see it really progress beyond that. It seems all this activity should be done with an end purpose in mind, that of actually getting the system to a point where it can be listened to for extended hours, a chance to really sit down and enjoy the music. But it never gets there. Just more and more changes, tweaking, cleaning, buffing, more changes, new tweaks, more adjustments...... An endless "do" loop.

I think that's a shame. The "audiophiles" I know, who have phenomenal equipment, superb record collections, etc. spend probably 90 to 95% of their time fiddling, tweaking, changing, etc..... and only 5 to 10% listening.

They keep trying to drag me down that path, and (consciously) I keep resisting. I'd rather spend several hours listening to a system that's "85% there", than only 15 minutes listening to a system that's "95% there". I feel it's a more balanced approach --for me--.

That's the irony I'm talking about. For all the supposed love of music, their "audiophile" approach is actually minimizing the amount of listening time. Again, I think that's a shame.

How about you? Have you always been an audiophile-type "fanatic" who expends serious effort getting everything 'right' and seeking to optimize your system, or were you a "just plug it in, drop the needle in the groove, and groove to the music" type, now reborn? How has playing records changed for you, over the years?

Well, as you can tell from above, I was never really at either extreme. I always had respect for the equipment and source material, but cannot and will not spend my life devoted to tweaking, and not really listening.

 

[merrylander]

My musical experience started with shellac, 78s and a wind up upright Victrola, lots of Harry Lauder and English music hall people in addition to some Gilbert & Sullivan, Dad sang in the local operatic society.

Much of the music was home made on a pedal pumped two manual organ.

Later in my teens I got a NoName TT with a ceramic cartridge and a Bogen DB10 amplifier and a wide range 12" speaker in a built in corner cabinet - stereo was yet to show, following the rather unsuccessful 'binaural' scheme.

I next got a Rek-O-Kut K33H and Livingstone transcription arm witj a GE Variable Reluctance cartridge - that was fine as long as there was room for the monster.

After getting married the first time the K33H proved too large and was sold and a Dual 1015 TT appeared along with a pair of Goodmans wide range 10" Axioms. The Bogen had long before given way to a Grommes and now gave way to my own designed Ultra Linear 6BQ5 stereo amp and FM Tuner.

The Goodmans and tuner/amp combo got sold replaced by an early Trio SS receiver and Celestion 12" co-axials. Next receiver was a Sansui 3000.

Prior to leaving Canada I had bought the Polk 7Bs I still have, a Yamaha A-1 integrated and a Rega Planar 2 and Signet TK5e cartridge. Always looking for that "as close to concert hall as possible" experience.

Now down to four systems, all Yamaha based except for Polk 7Bs and 10Bs, other speakers are NS-670s and NS-690s. Receivers are CR-1000, CR-2020, CR-2040 and CR-820. Yamaha CD-2, CDC755, cassettes are Yamaha K-1000 and K-850. TTs are Yamaha PX-2, Rega Planar 2, Pioneer PL-44fs and PL-88fs and there is an Onkyo cdp in there somewhere.

They all make music and do it very well and that's why they are here.

Looking back it was quite a journey.

 

[cactuscowboy]

How about you? Have you always been an audiophile-type "fanatic" who expends serious effort getting everything 'right' and seeking to optimize your system, or were you a "just plug it in, drop the needle in the groove, and groove to the music" type, now reborn? How has playing records changed for you, over the years?

Achieving the best sound out of my system has always been important. But I don't spend obscene amounts of money on gear and I'm not obsessed with constant upgrades. Too busy enjoying the music.

How I handle and play records hasn't changed much in the past 40 years. My parents taught me to handle records carefully and with respect. Nearly all my LPs bought new 35 years ago are still NM (vinyl), although the covers show some wear.

The major change has been getting into 78s in recent years.

 

[Arkay]

Hey Arkay, nice post. Contrary to all the other responses here that I've seen ..... I have a different take on this. As I suspect I'm "going against the grain" here I hope it won't turn into open flaming ..... but if someone feels like lobbing hateful stuff my way... so be it.

Just a few comments:



Over the years I've graduated from a fairly crude setup when I lived at home, to having what I consider "decent" equipment. Not TOTL, but pretty nice, solid performing items. Care in the handling of records, tapes, equipment, etc. is warranted, and is common sense IMO. It has been ever since the late 60's for me.

However I've noticed a real irony the whole "Audiophile" scene. I consider an Audiophile (in the root sense of the word as you termed it) to be someone who loves music, and likes having a system that (in their opinion) reproduces music in a manner that approaches being indistinguishable from the original performance."Close your eyes and you're there" so to speak. I think that's what audiophile is supposed to mean.

Unfortunately in my experience, Audiophile has become a code word for "endless compulsive tweaker". Yes proper equipment selection, setup, and adjustment is valid and valuable. But in most cases I never see it really progress beyond that. It seems all this activity should be done with an end purpose in mind, that of actually getting the system to a point where it can be listened to for extended hours, a chance to really sit down and enjoy the music. But it never gets there. Just more and more changes, tweaking, cleaning, buffing, more changes, new tweaks, more adjustments...... An endless "do" loop.

I think that's a shame. The "audiophiles" I know, who have phenomenal equipment, superb record collections, etc. spend probably 90 to 95% of their time fiddling, tweaking, changing, etc..... and only 5 to 10% listening.

They keep trying to drag me down that path, and (consciously) I keep resisting. I'd rather spend several hours listening to a system that's "85% there", than only 15 minutes listening to a system that's "95% there". I feel it's a more balanced approach --for me--.

That's the irony I'm talking about. For all the supposed love of music, their "audiophile" approach is actually minimizing the amount of listening time. Again, I think that's a shame.





Well, as you can tell from above, I was never really at either extreme. I always had respect for the equipment and source material, but cannot and will not spend my life devoted to tweaking, and not really listening.

You understood correctly what I meant by the "root meaning" of "audiophile": audio, from the word for sound, and phile, from the word for love; an audiophile = one who loves (good) sound. From there, we extrapolate to the hi-fi enthusiast, who pursues a system that "re-creates" an audio experience in as realistic --and where not absolutely realistic, at least as pleasant-- a way as possible. That re-creation becomes a form of personal recreation (again, the root meaning of a term).

I hope I didn't imply from my post that I am like those "audiophiles" you describe. I will take an hour or two to dial in a TT, but once I have done that, I may not touch it again for months, choosing instead to just enjoy the music. I will super-clean an LP when I first get it, but after that may use only routine "spot cleaning" before playing it. No point in going to all that work, when I'm not doing anything to make it dirty.

Most of my audio time is, indeed, spent listening, NOT tweaking.

BUT I do sometimes enjoy the tweaking, too. I have enough gear that sometimes I like to try new combinations, just to see how things sound together. Sometimes hoping to find "magic synergy", but just as often merely to satisfy my curiosity and better "educate my ear".

The end goal is always to enjoy the music, and I do that, very much... but sometimes also enjoy the tweaky "audiophile" bits. Not compulsive, do-it-instead-of-listening "audiophile" (negative sense) stuff, but just a nicely balanced (I hope) pursuit of the enjoyment of good sounds..."audiophile" in the true "music lover" sense.

But there is a big difference from years ago. Back then I accepted that the tool of a turntable and system was a sort of "fixed" entity, that one simply used as-is. Now I view it as a complex and flexible system, something that can be "played" (with) and manipulated, every bit as much as one can simply "play" a record. And that is a fundamental shift from years gone by. So record playing, for me, "jes' ain't what it used to was!"

 

[db297]

Nice post Arkay. It made me think back to my history. Wow. I remember my very first "record". It was a 45 by Peter & Gordon. I have no idea what song it was. I remember where I lived when I got it, so I was no older than in the 5th grade. Guess that would make me about 9 years old. My parents were never really into music, so I have no idea where my passion came from.

Now fast forward to Jr. High/High School. I remember having a "record player" that was pretty common in the late 60's/early 70's. The platter portion pivoted down, and there was a speaker on each side. Never really got into "taking care" of my albums, it was simply the only way to listen to music back then. I remember shutting my bedroom door, putting on a new album that just came out: Aretha Franklin "Live at Fillmore East". Then I'd pretend I was doing the singing. LOL

I lived (and still do) in a small college town. Looking back, I'm amazed at some of the bands that came and played in this small village of 2500 people. The Who, J. Geils, Spirit. Whenever, somebody came, I would rush up town and buy their latest album. (just what they wanted :thmbsp The only thing I remember about seeing The Who, was Roger Daughtry wore the same white outfit with the fringe that he wore at Woodstock. I always that was cool.

Right after high school (graduated in 1972), I went in the Army to avoid the lottery. My number was 42. Ended up in Okinawa. Over there everybody spent all their money on the latest stereo gear that just came out in Japan. I don't even remember what gear I had. I do remember I had (4) AR 2ax speakers, some kind of Pioneer TT, and a Pioneer RTR. During the 18 months I was there, Akai came out with the first "electro magnetic" buttons on their RTR's. Wow - that was SO cool.

We really didn't take real good care of our albums "over there". It was just something everybody had, and everybody did. There were 3 other guys that lived in the "bay" with me in the barracks. We went to the woodshop on base and built some huge "box", and put all of our gear together. Wow - that was cool. Of course there another 75 guys in the same barracks, and they all had super gear, and we had no walls, so the whole place was loud.

I remember going off base to visit friends that had houses. Wow. Walk in, and there was always a water pipe going that had 5-6 "whatever you call them" things coming off it. We'd stay there all day, and all night just listening to music and testing out the latest Thai sticks that came in.

We were an intelligence base too. LOL

It was basically the same way when we got back in the states. Just waiting to get out. Then somehow over the next few years, all the great stereo gear slowly disappeared. One of my best friends in Okinawa has all of my music. I gave him a ride home to Indiana when he ETS'ed. He wanted to record my music. Said he would ship it back to me. That was about 200 albums, 20-30 RTR tapes, and about 100 cassettes. Well, it's been about 35 years, and I'm still waiting.

Now, 35 years later, I am starting all over again. Now, it's more than just the only way to listen to music. Now it's quickly growing into an obsession. How much of an obsession relative to others is something I'll just have to wait and see. Now I wish I was really "into it" back long ago. Then I'd have a better idea of what I'm doing, and where I'm headed.

Fotunately, there is real cool forum on the web called AudioKarma where I can re-learn everything, and let it slowly take over my life.

Thanks Arkay for the great post. It let me go through some old memories.

db

 

[db297]

I was just thinking. It'd be cool if the friend that took all of my music was in this forum and he just read my post. I even forget his name. In case you are here - hey - I forgive you. I'm a Christian now, so don't be afraid to talk to me. We can just laugh about it. I know I've done lots of things I'm not proud of.

I apologize for getting a little off the thread. It won't happen again.
db

 

[KeninDC]

My mom (yeah, mom) built a mono tube amp from a kit. It powered a big mono speaker that my parents put a Buddha head on.

After that, there was my dad's tube Scott Stereomaster.

I was taught at an early age how to handle LPs and 45s correctly. Even in college, I kept my LPs in poly liners.

Not much has changed, really.

Ken

 

[spartanmanor]

I was taught at an early age how to handle LPs and 45s correctly. Even in college, I kept my LPs in poly liners.

Not much has changed, really.

Ken

Sounds familiar. I still have my original collection of about 200 lps in mint shape......over the last few years I have added quite a few more all nicely protected.

 

[cfranz]

1) I have a wife and children.
2) I also love music and
3) am curious about the universe around me....

This hobby allows me to do 2 and 3 and get the heck away from 1. It truly is that simple.

I build speakers and/or amps/pre-amps because it's fun. And the amazment of finding something I build works and, this is the kicker, works really well gives a great high without cooking your brain or dealing with arrest warrents.

No mystery here really...

Then also, there is simply something about records that makes the music more involving... This is tempered with the knowledge that the first listening experience which brought my wife to tears was 'Fanfare for the Comman Man' from a CD through a pair of Edgar Horns.. All played by Dr. Edgar.

If I could get the same feeling from an IPod, I would certainly move in that direction, however, that still leaves the 'proud PaPa' feeling which you simply cannot get from digital....

Or something

 

[Ohighway]

I hope I didn't imply from my post that I am like those "audiophiles" you describe. I will take an hour or two to dial in a TT, but once I have done that, I may not touch it again for months, choosing instead to just enjoy the music. I will super-clean an LP when I first get it, but after that may use only routine "spot cleaning" before playing it. No point in going to all that work, when I'm not doing anything to make it dirty.
Most of my audio time is, indeed, spent listening, NOT tweaking.

Well, actually I -did- get that feeling from your original post. However if you do as you just described above, then no, .....you're not like them. Some upfront work with the aim of extended listening makes sense to me.

Maybe I've just rubbed elbows with the wrong people. (In the audio sense only, they're very nice people in general) But seriously, these guys just -cannot- leave anything alone. Playing an entire side of an album without getting up mid record and adjusting something is a rarity. Drives me nuts.

 

[similost]

I think I'll have to wait for the unabridged edition of this to come out before I can comment... Not enough info there Arkay...

 

[gkimeng]

Most of my audio time is, indeed, spent listening, NOT tweaking.

I definitely spend more time "tweaking" than I used to, but that's probably inevitable when the newest piece of audio gear you own is nearly 30 years old. I'm willing to put way more effort into keeping something going than I used to be during the "golden age" of vintage audio, when replacing something that died with something new was almost guaranteed to constitute an upgrade, because today that's not necessarily a sure thing.

 

[jetblack]

How about you? Have you always been an audiophile-type "fanatic" who expends serious effort getting everything 'right' and seeking to optimize your system, or were you a "just plug it in, drop the needle in the groove, and groove to the music" type, now reborn? How has playing records changed for you, over the years?

Have I always been a fanatic? No. Time, money, and other interests/goals precluded the 'search' for perfection. Now I have the time & money, and am persuing the objective. I've made a lot of progress in recent months. TT update is in progress.

 

[ejman]

Arkay, that's a very fine post. Well done!
My family was always interested in music and I remember as a 10 year old kid being fascinated by the Lafayette amp my older brother built with the Collaro record player and custom built 12 inch speakers and thinking wow, that's really cool! I learned how to take care of LP's and I still have some from that time (we are talking 50 years ago!) and surprisingly, they still sound fine on my current setups: (Marantz/Creek/Rega/Lenco/Dual/Magneplanars/Advents/Paradigm in various combinations). Either we took good care of the records or they are surprisingly hardy things. I'm so glad I was exposed to this hobby so early on!. I derive immense pleasure from shopping in the 50cent or dollar bins at the record swap meets or record shops and can't wait to get home to discover all kinds of music I didn't even know existed. I'm always amazed at how good a lot of those records sound after a good cleaning with my RCM. We really live in fortunate times...

 

[BrocLuno]

The care a feeding of the toys is different, but the feeling of being washed in sound and tappin the toe is still about the same. Good LP and the volume goes up, the "air guitar, imaginary drum kit, etc" comes out and we rock on