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This Thing Gets LOUD

Guest105

Super Member
And now for a rant about another of my pet peeves. I often see postings in which people talk about how loud their amp gets. Generally, these take the form of “my old Sherwood 7010a may only have 12 watts per channel, but this thing can get LOUD!”.

There are only two variables in how loud your amp will get:

1. Output power
2. Speaker efficiency

To keep it simple, I’m leaving sound quality out of the discussion. But of course if you drive an amp past its capabilities, it starts clipping and sound degrades. If you drive speakers beyond their power handling capabilities, they bottom out and/or burn up.

OK, back to my peeve. If your Sherwood 7010a is getting LOUD, it’s either because the speakers you are using are very efficient, you are sitting six inches from them, or your hearing is hypersensitive. In any case, an amp can only get as loud as its output power capability will allow.

In other words, ALL amps of equal output power will produce the same volume (decibels) through the same pair of speakers. Yes, some amps will have better dynamics than others due to more robust power supplies, and some amps will sound better than others because of differences in design. But how LOUD they get will be the same.

Since I’m on a roll, how about the proud comments regarding position of the volume knob? As in “this amp gets really LOUD, and the knob is only turned to 10 o’clock. Aaaarrrgggghhhhh.

The taper from one volume pot to another varies quite significantly, even within pots specified as having an “audio taper”. The output at 10 o’clock might be as little as 5% with one pot, and as high as 30% with another.

The volume an amp is capable of producing has nothing to do with position of the volume control. The fact that one amp gets very loud at 10 o’clock and another amp rated at the same output wattage must be at 12 o’clock to achieve the same loudness says nothing about the power of the amps….it speaks only to the taper of the volume pot.

I rest my case. Go back to your homes, you can do no good here.
 
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I just get bugged my use of the term "loud" to describe anything positive related to music. I'm not opposed to turning up the volume but terms like "loud" drive me crazy. Only a little less so than "it hits hard".
I can scrape a 50 gallon metal drum with an electric razor and make it loud...but it ain't gonna be good.
 
Did it maybe ever occur to you that one person's definition of loud may be different from another's?
 
once did a comparison for fun . my 400 watt amp powering a friends speakers .it was fairly loud ..
then his 3 kw amp powering same speakers . that was very loud indeed .
this was of course done outside .
 
WHAT?.....Can't hear a thing? What could be wrong?
Doesn't matter what System I use 15 Watts x 2 or 300 Watts x 2!
Hey! Maybe I'll try Headphones:)
 
But the volume knob that isn't very linear (gets loud quickly) makes lots of sales in the showroom to the unwitting. I can hear the salesman now "look at how loud this thing gets at only 1/4 volume". There's no doubt lots of volume pots were designed this way just for that particular situation.
 
Did it maybe ever occur to you that one person's definition of loud may be different from another's?


Yes, it did. I think I mentioned that as one explanation.

My point is that some folks seem to think that some amps have more "loudness' capabilities than others as a function of some magical performance characteristic, as in "some of those great old vintage amps are a lot louder than others".

Of course, the real explanation for their surprise at being able to get significant loudness from a low-powered amp is the logarithmic relationship between power and loudness. Doesn't take much power to get fairly loud, but it takes a lot more to get much louder.

A pair of speakers with average efficiency - say, 88db - will put out roughly 88dB at six feet away (drop of 3dB for distance, increase of 3dB because two speakers). 88dB is fairly loud, by anyone's definition.

While it would certainly be clipping pretty heavily, a 12 watt amp could easily achieve volumes of 92-94dB at a reasonable listening distance without gross clipping distortion. Again, by (almost) anyone's definition, that's pretty loud.
 
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I'm also not pleased to see the trend of posting a large nominal power rating on an amp only to find that the amp is capable of barely a tenth that amount under the usual, rigorous standard of less than .02% THD at a continuous average power rating per channel into 8 ohms at any frequency from 20 to 20K with both channels driven.

Otto
 
My amp goes to 11.

Mine only goes to "0". I feel so cheated.

kcbluesman, yeah, I understand what you're talking about. When I see someone write about how "loud" his amp will get like that is a good thing, two thoughts come to mind:

1) "So what."

2 "Don't take advice from that guy."
 
Since loud is completely subjective, unless the volume is referenced to a dB reading the term "loud" means absolutely nothing. The same applies to talking about wattage readings from the meters on amplifiers.

Another poster recommended a SPL (many are free) app for Android or iPhones. Those apps may not be the most accurate but they are a lot more meaningful than proclaiming how "loud" something is or how many watts you're using. Most everyone who posts here has a smart phone. Downloading a free SPL meter app is a no brainer.
 
Yeah. So we all know the difference. Don't take it personally. The people saying these things aren't trying to fool US into buying mediocre gear.

Understandably, they're trying to contribute SOMETHING to the conversation, but without knowing better what appeals to us discriminating buyers, it's all they can relate from their experience.

That being said, the other common trash-talk I run into is the old, "My friend had a (recognizable-name high-dollar component) and we hooked this up to compare, and it BLEW IT AWAY!!!"

Again, that's all they can relate.
 
Well, how does one explain this, then?

Recap: Yamaha 100W/Chan. receiver = 74-76Db @35Hz
Sansui 45W/Chan. Amp(pre bypassed) = 94-96Db @ 35Hz


The only explanation I can think of is that modern amplifiers are not rated with the same standards as vintage amps. Anyone?
 
Well, how does one explain this, then?

Recap: Yamaha 100W/Chan. receiver = 74-76Db @35Hz
Sansui 45W/Chan. Amp(pre bypassed) = 94-96Db @ 35Hz


The only explanation I can think of is that modern amplifiers are not rated with the same standards as vintage amps. Anyone?


That could be the case, although I believe Yamaha probably uses industry-standard RMS measurments. Perhaps the Sansui's output section applies more gain than the Yamaha's.

I will stand firm in my contention that any two audio amps, when putting out equal power (wattage) to the same pair of speakers, will be equally loud. However, I am always open to correction.
 
That could be the case, although I believe Yamaha probably uses industry-standard RMS measurments. Perhaps the Sansui's output section applies more gain than the Yamaha's.

I will stand firm in my contention that any two audio amps, when putting out equal power (wattage) to the same pair of speakers, will be equally loud. However, I am always open to correction.

I think you're leaving out important bits in your posts...an amp that's not clipping might PEAK at a louder SPL, but an equal amp that is clipping would possibly show a higher AVERAGE SPL. So, it could depend on how things are measured.

je
 
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