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Thorens TD 124 w/ audiosilente replacement idler wheel mechanical noise?

I had some burrs on my motor pulley that were causing a "whistling" sound when the table was operating. Very high frequency but quite audible. A little polishing compound and a dremmel on low speed took care of them. The castings on these weren't always the best. Check for that and polish as necessary, while you have it off for grease and oil per bob.
 
Just wondering....
The noise began after you replaced the idler wheel with the Audiosilente version?

Any problems before?
Did you do any other work on the table?
 
I also replaced the motor dampening grommets which were not in great shape. I think once I take the belt off and examine things it should not be that hard to figure out the issue. I will report back once this is done.
 
I dusted my (new) belt by Thakker in a bowl of talc powder when I replaced it. That seemed to eliminate some noise.
The new belt was thicker and tauter than the old and required me to reset the motor pulley height.
You have A MKII. Does the new belt pull the motor off axis? Does the belt position move on either pulley when running?
 
heyraz said:
I dusted my (new) belt by Thakker in a bowl of talc powder when I replaced it. That seemed to eliminate some noise.
The new belt was thicker and tauter than the old and required me to reset the motor pulley height.
You have A MKII. Does the new belt pull the motor off axis? Does the belt position move on either pulley when running?
Click to expand...
It does not have a new belt. If the old belt turns out to be a problem I will replace it. The belt is about 7 years old now.
 
I wonder if the new grommets changed a pulley height.
Great thing about the 124 is how straight forward the design is.

Well...you'll figure it out.
 
http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/wheel_audiosilente/DSC_3407.MOV
Above is a quicktime movie of the AudioSilente wheel in action...with the platter off. It may be helpful to visualize some of the adjustment points. It is important to get the wheel height relative to the steps on the stepped idler pulley in good adjustment...which you can see in the movie.
Otherwise, I think most of the important things have been mentioned above.
Clean and free of any oil residues on the inside rim of the platter and tire. Cleanliness is an absolute necessity with any idler, one should think. Also consider that each O-ring needs to be carefully seated onto the wheel. Keeping in mind that the O-ring style of idler wheel does not put a precision grind on the OD after fitment. Therefore the seating of the ring to the wheel is very sensitive and worthy of care.
Talcom powder on belt is ok. but not around the wheel. Grip is important. Slip is to be avoided.
The bushing on the Audiosilente wheel is not porous bronze so may take well to a low viscosity grease, but I always use straight 20 wt. turbine oil with good results.

Belt and cleanliness of the pulley surfaces is always high on the list of maintenance to be done.
-Steve
 
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Great video Steve! It is nice to see the wheel working all speeds. Mine is set up similar.

As I stated earlier the noise is not coming from the AudioSilente Wheel after all. It is from the step pulley. The noise can be heard whether the wheel is engaged or not, it starts up after a few minutes of play. IMO it is either the belt or a lubrication problem with the pulley.
 
jgordon said:
I had some burrs on my motor pulley that were causing a "whistling" sound when the table was operating. Very high frequency but quite audible. A little polishing compound and a dremmel on low speed took care of them. The castings on these weren't always the best. Check for that and polish as necessary, while you have it off for grease and oil per bob.
Click to expand...

I had a similar problem, and it caused my belt to shed, which in turn created noise. I used some metal polish and a Q-Tip, followed by alcohol, and the problem went away.
 
Regarding the idler wheel... do you folks use the screw-tight retainer atop your idler? I've seen photos with and without this part
 
spartanmanor said:
Great video Steve! It is nice to see the wheel working all speeds. Mine is set up similar.

As I stated earlier the noise is not coming from the AudioSilente Wheel after all. It is from the step pulley. The noise can be heard whether the wheel is engaged or not, it starts up after a few minutes of play. IMO it is either the belt or a lubrication problem with the pulley.
Click to expand...

Ah. I probably did not read the entire thread as closely as I might have. But it does make sense that the problem originates from the stepped pulley. IF squeal, it must be lube. Attend to right away B4 bushing and shaft wear ruin the quality of fit.

I've worked on ten Td124 players so far. I have seen three versions of the stepped pulley. I believe the last version as seen on the mkII can be the noisiest even when condition and maintenance are maintained optimal. But this is only ambient noise and does not intrude into the signal chain. But if there is significant bushing wear at the stepped pulley -- that could really add some rumble to the playback.
-Steve
 
asilker said:
Regarding the idler wheel... do you folks use the screw-tight retainer atop your idler? I've seen photos with and without this part
Click to expand...
On the mkII there is no retainer used on top of the wheel axle. Only a guide. On the mk1 the retainer should have some clearance so that it does not put any binding force onto the top of the wheel. Other words, the wheel needs to spin free. No friction wanted here.
-Steve
 
Erocka2000 said:
Also make sure the tension in the spring that opens the idler arm mechanism is still strong. You can just wind the spring to increase tension. It's a pain in the ass, but it helps.
Click to expand...
This is a good tip. An extra wind of the idler carriage spring will get the squeaking silicon tighter against the platter rim and eliminate the noise. It isn't even such a PITA to do. The carriage retainer ring has two flat set screws to unlock - just like the stock idler retainer, then the hinge pin can be pulled out.
 
Last night I removed the belt and step pulley. Re-lubricated the step pulley, even though it appeared to be fine. The belt had some ware, I flipped it inside out so the worn rubber was not contacting the pulley and drive spindle and reinstalled everything. This has taken care of the issue. At this point I do believe the noise was coming from the ageing belt.
 
Belt whooshing has a different sound than squeaking silicon though none are amplified. I had whooshing with a brand new TD124 original Thorens belt from Thakker that wasn't worn out. It was riding the motor pulley too low. I had to align the motor pulley against the stepped pulley so the belt rides smack in the ridged middle. That fixed the whooshing.
 
Do you guys have a recommended belt replacement? Is the Thakker belt better than others? I think I have been running a Chinese knockoff for the past 8 years....
 
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