Thorens TD-126 MkII thoughts/advice

[SEdwards]

Hi Folks - first time posting on here but certainly have learned a lot by reading the forums over the years! Now I need some adice.

I am awaiting delivery on a Thorens TD-126 I picked up off ebay yesterday afternoon. It'll be my first Thorens and chose it over the 160 because I wanted the 78 option for a handful of 78's I own. I have a VPI Classic Signature with a Soundsmith Paua as my main deck, but after getting a Dual 1219 restored last month found I loved the vintage sound I was getting and decided on the Thorens. Both the VPI and the Thorens will be run though my Tavish Adagio phono pre, so the Thorens will need to be outfitted with an MM cartridge.

Here's a pic of the 126 I grabbed - told it was working perfectly by the seller, who had a perfect rating and has sold many vintage TT's, though he could give me a lot of details about the table:

Some questions:
I'm trying to ID the tonearm. I think this is the tp 16 isotrack from looking at other pictures on the web. Is that right? How is this tone arm and, since I have the upgrade bug as much as any of us, should I be looking at this as a first move down the road? I know everyone raves about the SME 3009, but are there other more affordable arms that would outperform the current one and, hopefully, allow me to maintain the auto lift feature?

I'm going to need a good MM cartridge match, preferably in the $400 range or less. Any ideas appreciated.

I'm confused about the Thorens model here. I know this is a MkII, but some MkIIs have only a stop button on the right side and others, like this one, have the cue buttons. What's up with that?

I've read a lot of conflicting views on the Thorens rubber mat. What are folks experiences with the stock mats on this particular model. Are those who found improvements with aftermarket mats, like deer skin, placing them right on top of the stock rubber or doing a complete replacement?

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Blue Shadow]

Welcome to the posting side of AK..

There are a number of cartridges sold on Barter Town, the buy sell trade subscription only forum. Only fee for transactions from this venue. $25 per year is cheap, kinda but you might get caught buying too much.

The Ortofon Black>>Bronze or the new Audio Technica VM series, 700-600-500 allowing any stylus of the series to be used and there is a 78 stylus in the group. Get the good VM and the 78 stylus and swap as needed. I don't know prices of these but glad to see you wanting to get something appropriate instead of choking the signal as it leaves the record with a cartridge not up to the ability of the table. Budgets are real I understand but good table can get a lot out of better cartridges.

The herbies mat worked best on my TD-160 Super but I didn't hear much difference on the 125 listening to 5-6 different mats. My 125 came with a herbies so I'm happy

 

[SEdwards]

Thanks for the cartridge tips - I'll take a look. I've also hear good things about the AT's being a good match.

 

[Crestwood23]

I have a 126mkii with no cueing buttons, I believe they were available with and without so you had the option of using the arm of your choice (but sacrifice the cueing function). Mine came with an Infinity Black Widow and it is a fantastic sounding combo.
I’m pretty sure that if you want to retain the cueing you need to stick with the stock arm that’s on there now.
I’m a big fan of deerskin mats and use them on my other two idler tables, but on this table I have had best results with a cork/rubber + bren weight combo I got from Dave at vinylnirvana.

 

[SEdwards]

So I did some digging into the AT VM series this morning. I'm thinking of the VM750SH. And I see there are both 78 (VMN70SP) and mono (VMN10CB) styluses for $89 and $69 respectively. So I can just leave the 750SH cartridge in place and switch out the stylus whenever I want? That would be great!

 

[SEdwards]

I’m a big fan of deerskin mats and use them on my other two idler tables, but on this table I have had best results with a cork/rubber + bren weight combo I got from Dave at vinylnirvana.

Thanks - I saw the cork/rubber mat's on Dave's site and will give it a try. Are you placing it on top of the stock or swapping it out?

 

[Crestwood23]

Thanks - I saw the cork/rubber mat's on Dave's site and will give it a try. Are you placing it on top of the stock or swapping it out?

Swapped it out completely. Also make sure you balance the springs with the mat, weight and lp on the table. Adjusting the springs is tricky, but it really improves the sound when you finally dial in the optimum amount of “bounce”.

 

[SEdwards]

Also make sure you balance the springs with the mat, weight and lp on the table.

Thanks. I'm not very adept on the technical side, but guess I'm going to have to learn! I see the Chassis Suspension Adjustment section of the service manual - is that what I should be following to balance the springs?

 

[dr*audio]

I have that same mat on my TD126 MKii and it works great. It's a nice, dense, heavy mat, just what is required to damp the vibrations in the record. All you need is a clamp.

 

[Blue Shadow]

I think both the Ortofon and AT have styli that will swap to allow you to use them with different records. Of course AT for AT as you found and Ortofon offers similar for their 2M series. I guess I left that 2M model number out.

 

[the_nines]

Beautiful table!

Congratulations.

 

[SEdwards]

Beautiful table!

Congratulations.

Thank you - looking forward to getting it set up and keeping my fingers crossed that everything's in working order!

 

[SEdwards]

I ended up with a AT VM750SH cartridge as I have the TP-62 wand and it will only take bottom screw cartridges, so no Ortofon for me. It arrived yesterday. Mounting it has been a nightmare. Just getting the AT onto the TP-62 wand was difficult - the screws just wouldn't catch on the metal plate on top, but finally got that done last night and went to align using the Thorens Baerwald Arc Protractor only to find that VTA was so off the bottom of the cartridge body was almost (maybe was!) touching the platter. Thanks to all the great info I got by searching this site I managed to figure out how to raise the tonearm. But my TP-16 arm has this plastic collar that hide the adjustment hex screws.

Even once I figured that out, rotating it, finding the screws, holding up the collar and trying to get a hex wrench in there was not fun. I raised the arm as high as I could, tightened the screws back up only to find that the tone arm no longer swung freely. So back in to do it again and drop it just a slight bit to get the arm swinging freely again. But, I was unable to get the level VTA I wanted. So I removed the thick stock mat and replaced it with a thinner cork/rubber that I just picked up. Still a little off as you can see (the picture makes it seem a little worse than it is because of the angle):

Just finished aligning the cartridge, setting VTF, etc and putting on an LP. Sounds wonderful, but the VTA still has me worried. I'm going to try to raise the tone arm a little again - not sure why it restricted the swing when I had it pushed all the way up - but this may just not be the cartridge for this arm even though Loggins and Messina's Full Sail sounds incredible as I type this!

 

[ehoove]

Congrats, Best one of the TD126 series tables. Invest in a Herbie's way excellent mat for it. There should not be any restriction to the swing unless the wiring is being stretched too far. carefully remove the arm board and check how the tone arm is wired. I had this issue when raising the TP16 arm on my TD160 before moving to a Project 9CC arm on it. The TD126 MKIII I owned had a audio technica AT1100 arm on it so I'm not sure about the wiring setup of the stock arm
Regards,
Jim

.

 

[bimasta]

I raised the arm as high as I could, tightened the screws back up only to find that the tone arm no longer swung freely. I'm going to try to raise the tone arm a little again - not sure why it restricted the swing when I had it pushed all the way up - but this may just not be the cartridge for this arm even though Loggins and Messina's Full Sail sounds incredible as I type this!

With the arm at full height, you pulled the internal wires tight: they had no "give", and the arm couldn't swing. You might be able to fix this, if you are able to work inside...

Pic is a TD-125 — your 126 will be similar.

The wires in the ellipse (bottom right) may be pushed up into the arm-base. This will give more slack or "play". Only a few mm should do it...

 

[SEdwards]

carefully remove the arm board and check how the tone arm is wired.

You might be able to fix this, if you are able to work inside...

Thanks for the suggestions - makes sense. I am a little wary of messing with this as I'm not the most technically adept person and haven't done work on TTs before, but sounding like I'm going to need to do this to get my tonearm level. I was actually thinking of getting a RCA/Ground plate mounted on the back of the plinth if I could find someone local so could have it all done at once. But tempted to pull the bottom off myself and see if I could gain a 12 inch of slack - don't need much!

 

[ehoove]

Just make sure to remove the outer platter, and tape the inner platter in place with blue painters tape or something similar that won't damage the finish on the top deck when you open the bottom. The insides of the TD126 MkII will look different than the pic of the TD125 since the TD126 plinth sits in the base where the TD125 bottom board sits in the plinth
You may just be able to remove the 3 allen screws on the armboard and lift it up as opposed to removing the bottom, but take care with the tone arm wires. also make sure the tonearm is aligned straight with the armboard when adjusting it. Also the cue arm can be adjusted as well via a tiny allen key in the side of it.
Regards,
Jim

 

[bimasta]

Easiest and safest is to "remove the outer platter, and tape the inner platter in place with blue painters tape or something similar that won't damage the finish on the top deck when you open the bottom" as ehoove says.

[NB: I remove the inner platter too, and plug the hole so oil can't drip out — this avoids possible paint damage pulling tape off later. But both will work.]

THEN, when you turn it over, put it on a thick pillow. A chair or sofa cushion is ideal.

AND BE SURE that the Tonearm is off the edge of the pillow, so it touches NOTHING.

That's why a sofa cushion is good: it's firm, and the edge won't sag down like a bed-pillow — it will keep the tonearm up in the air, not contacting anything, so it can't be damaged.

Work out the pillow arrangement in advance, so you know exactly where to place the TT when you turn it over. Then remove the bottom, and you'll have access to everything.

I know it's daunting first-time, but you'll be surprised how easy it is.

I caution against the suggestion to remove only the armboard — it and the arm will be unwieldy, and tethered only by 4 very fragile wires — one slip and you break them. Save that technique for your next Thorens, and you're more experienced, as is ehoove.

 

[SEdwards]

Alright, you all inspired me to dive in. Removed the bottom using cushions as suggested:

Unfortunately, if I'm looking at this correctly, it seems that there just isn't a lot of play in the tonearm wiring.

I guess the next step (which is waaay above my pay grade) is to somehow extend/replace the tonearm wiring. It's all back together now and playing. VTA isn't horrible, but certainly not level. Thanks for all the help!

 

[bimasta]

I've had both 125 and 126, knew they were different, but didn't recall all the details — and I didn't want to overcomplicate my wording.

Did you take the white box off (looks like only one screw) so you could check the wires concealed underneath?