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Thorens TD 160 vs TD 124

malden

malden

Lunatic Member
I have had this Thorens TD 160 for a number of years and am very happy with it but every time I see a TD 124, I can't help but feel that maybe this is the holy grail of Thorens turntables.

Would there be a significant improvement in sound and performance going from the 160 to the 124, or would it simply be a lateral move?

I understand that tonearm choice for the 124 is a big factor in determining its performance. I'm thinking an early SME 3009. Any thoughts?
 
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Although the 3009 is a standard, wholly at home on the 124 there are much better tonearms available today.

The 160 is just a good Thorens, unless you have the Super and a great tonearm on it. The 124 would be a grail, not a holy grail as there are some better Thorens tables, just not at a price people would pay. It would be a nice step up. So would the 3009 vs. the stock arm on the Thorens but others really like the TP arms.

The 124 would need to a complete rebuild to be the turntable it should be. New rubber parts and clean and lube and some insist on a big fancy plinth. But work on the table and a well thought out tonearm/cartridge combination would make a table many would love to have and keep forever.

But your quick questions brings lots of discussion and thoughts on what to do.
 
As the TD 160 was inspired by the TD 150, which was inspired by the AR XA, the AR TA and TT before it, and the Stromberg-Carlson Perfectone which begat all subsequent suspended belt drive turntables which followed.
 
Thanks guys for the replies. I kinda figured it was an apples to oranges comparison. I was just wondering, before I start to seriously look for one, if there would be a significant improvement over the TD 160.

I have several belt drive as well as idler drive turntables. Although there are minor differences, I have a hard time recognizing any significant differences in the sonic qualities between them. None of them would be considered "high end", Empire 398, AR XB, Thorens TD 165 (and TD 160), Garrard Lab 80, Elac 10, Garrard Zero 100, also a Technics SL 1800 MK2. Of those mentioned, the 3 that get the most use are the two Thorens and the Technics, mainly because they are the easiest to use (the AR suspension is too bouncy).

All three idlers work manually but need complete overhauls to be fully functional. The tonearm bearings on the idlers seem a little stiff, this is evident while balancing the tonearms prior to setting the proper tracking forces. The Empire 398 is a solid well made turntable but there is a constant purrrr coming from the motor that is audible at arms length. The Technics is the easiest to use. It starts right up, changing headshells with different cartridges is a snap as well as setting the tracking force, anti-skate and tonearm height. My only problem with the Technics is the high-tech look, it does not fit into my mid-century to 70's set-up, ha ha!

There must be some clear sonic, as well as functional advantages of owning a TD 124 over a 160. Just wondering what they would be...
 
Slightly off, but is there any real difference between the Thorens 160 and 166? I heard somewhere the only difference is the tonearm.
 
malden said:
I have several belt drive as well as idler drive turntables. Although there are minor differences, I have a hard time recognizing any significant differences in the sonic qualities between them.
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Really?

the AR suspension is too bouncy.
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Is that because of your floors? An AR suspension should be tuned to be reasonably firm. I use two popsicle sticks taped to together to measure the space between the platter and the top plate.
 
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beatcomber said:
Really?



Is that because of your floors? An AR suspension should be tuned to be reasonably firm. I use two popsicle sticks taped to together to measure the space between the platter and the top plate.
Click to expand...


Good question but, IMHO bouncy floors would also cause problems for the Thorens. malden, have you done any tuning to the ARs' suspension?
 
Well, if you believe Art Dudley at Stereophile, the difference would be the 124's advantage in "communication of force and impact", especially anything of a percussive nature, from the obvious (drums, congas, etc.), to anything struck (like piano strings) or plucked (pizzicato orchestral strings and jazz bass).

I've never owned an idler drive. The obvious trade-off is noise.
 
sqlsavior said:
Well, if you believe Art Dudley at Stereophile, the difference would be the 124's advantage in "communication of force and impact", especially anything of a percussive nature, from the obvious (drums, congas, etc.), to anything struck (like piano strings) or plucked (pizzicato orchestral strings and jazz bass).

I've never owned an idler drive. The obvious trade-off is noise.
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I would agree with Art Dudley, although there are plenty of belt-drives capable of excellent PRaT.

Noise is definitely a potential problem, but a properly running TD-124 is very quiet.
 
If you have woofers that respond down to 16 hz, with electronics and cartridge of the same capability you don't want a 124, unless you like to watch your woofers just move back and forth trying to reproduce the rumble and noises the 124 generates. If you roll off the response steeply below 40 hz, then most of the issues will be neutralized. If you do find a 124, all the rubber pieces will need to be replaced, the motor serviced, etc etc etc. Lots of $$$$$$$. A great tone arm is going to set you back big time. Investing that kind of money for a vintage TT with compromised performance, that can be replaced with a modern unit that is 20 to 30 db quieter with much better PRAT would be a wiser voice. Now if one appeared on my front door step unannounced, I would open the door and invite it in. Invest a little money in it and sell it for a big profit. I used a MK I and a MK II and owned 121's and was glad I moved on, my woofers were happy also.
 
Someone needs to turn on the Pig-Signal as this seems like a good conversation for Mr. Pig to weigh in on (both for TD124 and rumble, and TD124 and tonearm). I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think having folks who have heard both TD160 and TD124s in their systems would be helpful.

And how many folks here have speakers that extend down to 16Hz? I suddenly felt very inadequate about my stereo when I read that!

-D
 
derekva said:
And how many folks here have speakers that extend down to 16Hz? I suddenly felt very inadequate about my stereo when I read that!

-D
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Most here have speakers that will move to a 16Hz tone which burns up amp power and massages the speaker sometimes to detrimental results levels. Woofers should not be seen to move. If they are there are some low frequency junk getting played using up resources.
 
beatcomber said:
Really?
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.....Of the turntables I previously mentioned, only the Elac 10 and the Garrard Zero 100 have shortcomings that keep me from using them at all. The Elac speed is slightly fast and the mid-range sounds a little constricted. I attribute this to the massive tonearm and pivot bearings that could probably use fresh lubricant. The Zero 100 tonearm is a little droopy, obviously due to the numerous moving parts and pivot points. It also is lacking in the bass department which may be due to the sloppy tonearm assembly.

beatcomber said:
Is that because of your floors? An AR suspension should be tuned to be reasonably firm. I use two popsicle sticks taped to together to measure the space between the platter and the top plate.
Click to expand...

Floors are pretty sturdy, I seldom use the AR because when cleaning a record with a Discwasher brush, it's hard to control the platter from bouncing around. The TD-160 suspension also bounces but is stiffer so it's easier to control.
 
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malden said:
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Floors are pretty sturdy, I seldom use the AR because when cleaning a record with a Discwasher brush, it's hard to control the platter from bouncing around. The TD-160 suspension also bounces but is stiffer so it's easier to control.
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either dust the albums off the table, or use a Swiffer to dust on the table.
 
I've thought about using one of the heavy platter idlers to do the record cleaning.

Swiffer? what is that?
 
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