thorens td166mk ii or dual 1219?

[punprankster]

trying to move on from my departed sony ps x-50...
i currently have a stock thorens td166mkii with a grade mc+ mono cartridge that is my workhorse these days. been thinking of upgrading it but not sure yet if i should keep on looking until i find one that i would have no doubts on sinking my money in.
so i came across a dual 1219 without a cartridge and dust cover for $110, a dual 1229 for $200 and a thorens td165 for the same price. in light of the table i have, is any of this still worth picking up, or am i better served by sinking that money into upgrades for my 166?
thanks a lot.

 

[jancumps]

There you go; the luxury of choice.
All four are decent tables that can serve you well. For the 1219, if the cartridge is missing, do a check if the cartridge sled is still there.

 

[muovimies]

I think TD-165 is basically the same table you have but without the auto lift-off at the end of record - but depending when it was made there might be some differences, like a different tone arm or main bearing / sub-platter - either way, very similar performance level to what you have now, if not identical.

IMO a Dual 1219 or 1229 is a downgrade from the Thorens, or a side-ways move at best, depending what your priorities are. The big idler duals have their merits, but on sound quality alone I still find it an unfavourable comparison to the Thorens - but if you want a feel-good sound and strong rhytmic drive, the Dual can really deliver. In detail and transparency, I think the Thorens is a clear winner. Haven't done a side by side comparison though, so take my opinions with a grain of salt (as always!), I do own both though (a Dual 1229 & Thorens TD-160). Maybe I ought to give the Dual a turn in my main system at some point again, as I've upgraded everything since the last time.

 

[Kingshead]

The TD 166MKII is fully manual, basically just the 165's replacement, some changes for the better some not. I have the 166 and owned the 1219 in the past, both great tables but I prefer the Thorens.

 

[punprankster]

i have the my thorens 166 hooked up to a grado mc+ for playing old records at the moment. i want a second table that i can use in a "fire and forget" mode, hence my interest in the dual. every time i run to the turntable to lift the arm after the last song played, i am reminded of why automatic return was invented or why people migrated to cd's like children following the pied piper.
i've noticed that opinions are varied though, and that the 1219 is chosen by some over the 1229. why is this so? i'd like to gather as much information as i can before making a final decision as i do not want to deal with buyer's remorse in the end.

 

[PureQuill]

Thorens If you want a manual TT or the Dual 1229 if it is in great shape & you want the features of a full auto & want to add an idler. I own TD 166MkII (see my signature) & I am looking for a nice 1229 for the times I want to drop a needle & do other things around the house with out having to run to the TT at the end of the record.

 

[ludite]

i've noticed that opinions are varied though, and that the 1219 is chosen by some over the 1229. why is this so? i'd like to gather as much information as i can before making a final decision as i do not want to deal with buyer's remorse in the end.[/QUOTE]

version 2 of the 1219 & the 1229/q have some plastic parts that in the version 1 1219 are metal. v1 1219's (s/n # under 141000) que lever only operates in the single play mode. no big deal as most only use them as an single play auto vs. a changer. the only other difference between a 1219 & a 1229 is the '29 has a internal strobe.

 

[PureQuill]

Here is a great link describing the different Dual’s.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=116810

 

[punprankster]

so i settled for the dual 1219 after some thought. i did find a cartridge holder on ebay. want to know if it is the correct one, but i don't know if i'm allowed to post a link here.

i can't seem to find the serial number. where can it be found? what cartridge would be good for the table? what things do i need to check up on? which parts do i deoxit and lube? i also need to find a set of rca cables. can anyone suggest a good one?

many thanks. i'm already excited at the thought of the table being all set up and ready to go.

 

[4Play]

I have a 1219 and love it. The cartridge I have is a Shure M91-ED and would be considered a good match for the 1219.

I bought my RCA cables from Blue Jeans Cable. The link will take you to the page you need.

 

[punprankster]

thanks for the advices. i shall get to work on it asap.
muovimies and kingshead: why do you prefer the thorens over the dual? is it because the thorens is a belt drive and the dual is an idler? what would be the main difference between them in real life?

 

[beatcomber]

thanks for the advices. i shall get to work on it asap.
muovimies and kingshead: why do you prefer the thorens over the dual? is it because the thorens is a belt drive and the dual is an idler? what would be the main difference between them in real life?

I do not have a belt-drive Thorens, but I do have an AR with a similarly sprung suspension. I also have a Dual 1219 that has been completely rebuilt/restored.

I have found that the AR does an exceptional job of presenting air around the instruments and producing a holographic soundstage.

The Dual excels at rhythmic drive and producing very tight bass.

The AR has a quieter background vs. the Dual, although a properly maintained Dual should not have excessive rumble.

 

[muovimies]

thanks for the advices. i shall get to work on it asap.
muovimies and kingshead: why do you prefer the thorens over the dual? is it because the thorens is a belt drive and the dual is an idler? what would be the main difference between them in real life?

Pretty much the same reason Beatcomber listen above on his comparison of Dual 1219 vs. AR XA - I find the Thorens has overall better resolution and richer sound, by richer I mean it's easier to hear finer level details, like room acoustics etc.

The Dual had a very solid drive & bottom end and fairly good detail as well, not a bad player at all, but ultimately I find the Thorens more satisfying. I haven't run them head to head though and I don't have the Dual with me at the moment, I gave it to someone for use so that it doesn't just sit in my closet.

 

[jancumps]

Once a turntable is in the 'decent' category, I have difficulties placing one above the other.
Me being a gear geek, at that point I start to pull in things like 'looks', 'brand preference', and 'other not sound quality related' criterea

 

[punprankster]

i snagged a dual turntable headshell with an audio technics at11e cartridge. it doesn't come with a stylus, however. i saw some nicely priced generic ats11 and ats12 cartridge on ebay (by evgame) on amazon. is it worth buying these or should i just buy the original one made by audio technica?
i figured this would be a nice place to start. i have read good reviews on the cart and would like to try it. i just know next to nothing about needles and would need the community's help.
again, thanks to all the help.

 

[petes'picks]

had 1229 and TD160 at same time

I had a 1229 (clam shell) and a TD160 at the same time and did back to backs several nights in a row and I couldnt pick a clear winner between the two. I liked the bass on the 1229 just a tad more and maybe the TD160 was a bit more airy. I couldnt decide so I bought both to a show here in Denver kept the one that didnt sell first. I didnt like the clam shell version for use but liked the looks when it was idle. Both require patience as the Duals maintence is time consuming and proper setup of the Thorens is an art

 

[punprankster]

I have a 1219 and love it. The cartridge I have is a Shure M91-ED and would be considered a good match for the 1219.

I bought my RCA cables from Blue Jeans Cable. The link will take you to the page you need.

what length cable did you get? is there an ideal max length to prevent signal loss? i'm planning to hook up the turntable to a phono preamp and then hook it up to my old rotel rsx 1067 which unfortunately has no phone input.

 

[beatcomber]

I do not have a belt-drive Thorens, but I do have an AR with a similarly sprung suspension. I also have a Dual 1219 that has been completely rebuilt/restored.

I have found that the AR does an exceptional job of presenting air around the instruments and producing a holographic soundstage.

The Dual excels at rhythmic drive and producing very tight bass.

The AR has a quieter background vs. the Dual, although a properly maintained Dual should not have excessive rumble.

Pretty much the same reason Beatcomber listen above on his comparison of Dual 1219 vs. AR XA - I find the Thorens has overall better resolution and richer sound, by richer I mean it's easier to hear finer level details, like room acoustics etc.

The Dual had a very solid drive & bottom end and fairly good detail as well, not a bad player at all, but ultimately I find the Thorens more satisfying. I haven't run them head to head though and I don't have the Dual with me at the moment, I gave it to someone for use so that it doesn't just sit in my closet.

Following up on my earlier comments, I once made some comparative sound files of both the AR and the Dual, and was very surprised at how much more of a noise floor the Dual had vs. the sprung-suspension AR.