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Thorens to Technics?

SterlingOne said:
For sure, the 1200 is better when user wants to accommodate multiple cartridges. The 1200 adapts to universal SME type headshells, and changing one headshell/cart for another, the just connected headshell can be adjusted for VTA and/or azimuth very quickly.
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Absolutely. But, after a hifi lifetime of using fixed headshells, I'm used to one cart. ruling them all.

With respect to Tolkein.
 
Grenadeslio said:
Michael Fremer has a few comments to say concerning his view on fixed vs removable headshells.
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Yes, he prefers fixed headshells. And, such preference might require hours or even a days worth of work to properly mount a cartridge. Hey, that might be fun, entertaining, and exciting involvement ending in exactness, for which the time spent on exactness is moot when the user is committed to a preferred cartridge. I've been there, done that; yet, I purchased my SL-1210GR specifically to get cartridge alignment perfection in minutes, since I enjoy cartridge experimentation; and, I have poor eyesight, making cartridge mounting to a fixed headshell an ordeal. I also like PNP carts, which can be mounted to an SL-1200 series tonearm to Technics tracking error specification literally in seconds.
 
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SterlingOne said:
Yes, he prefers fixed headshells. And, such preference might require hours or even a days worth of work to properly mount a cartridge. Hey, that might be fun, entertaining, and exciting involvement, which, when the user is committed to a preferred cartridge, is of no concern. I've been there, done that; yet, I purchased my SL-1210GR specifically to get cartridge alignment perfection in minutes without the complications inherent to fixed headshell designs, since I enjoy cartridge experimentation, and have poor eyesight and dexterity, making mounting a cart to a fixed headshell an ordeal to perfect. I also like PNP carts, which can be mounted to a tonearm for ideal alignment literally in seconds.
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Eh, if taking days to mount any cartridge you're doing it wrong, just sayin lol.
 
Grenadeslio said:
Eh, if taking days to mount any cartridge you're doing it wrong, just sayin lol.
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I did not say taking days. Sheesh, re-read, I said, "taking a days worth of work". And, indeed, it can take about a day if the cart needs to be shimmed for VTA, or azimuth in addition to setting the cart to a preferred alignment scheme. Also, if the cartridge ends up setting tail low on a fixed headshell there's no doubt proper mounting will consume a days worth of work unless the tonearm has an accommodating VTA adjustment feature. The Thorens does not.
 
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SterlingOne said:
I did not say taking days. Sheesh, re-read, I said, "taking a days worth of work". And, indeed, it can take about a day if the cart needs to be shimmed for VTA, or azimuth in addition to setting the cart to a preferred alignment scheme. Also, if the cartridge ends up setting tail low on a fixed headshell there's no doubt proper mounting will consume a days worth of work unless the tonearm has an accommodating VTA adjustment feature. The Thorens does not.
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Ok, a days worth of work is still ridiculous. My Grace arm is no walk in the park to mount a cart to, I remove the arm to make it a bit easier, and still have the new cart mounted and aligned in less than an hour lol.

And I see no reason a fixed headshell would have any bearing on whether tail down or not as you've stated lol.
 
TBH. I don't particularly have a fixed/non-fixed preference.

The Rega needed a 4mm washer and the Tabriz is infinitely variable. The 2nd hand Tabriz was also much cheaper than other new arms I looked at - Jelco and Audionote.
And I'm very happy with it.

Like all hifi - there is no 'right' way, just what makes you happy.

ps
Who's Michael Fremer?
 
Grenadeslio said:
Ok, a days worth of work is still ridiculous. My Grace arm is no walk in the park to mount a cart to, I remove the arm to make it a bit easier, and still have the new cart mounted and aligned in less than an hour lol.
And I see no reason a fixed headshell would have any bearing on whether tail down or not as you've stated lol.
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Yeah, you take off the arm. That's just like having a detachable headshell for mounting ease. And here's the bearing on tail down: If the cart is tail down, not level for proper SRA, mounted to a turntable with no VTA adjustment feature, the tonearm base will need to be raised. For example, if an 18mm cartridge is mounted to a Rega tonearm, the tonearm base will need to be shimmed to get the 18mm cart to be level when tonearm is lowered onto a record.
 
SterlingOne said:
Yeah, you take off the arm. That's just like having a detachable headshell for mounting ease. And here's the bearing on tail down: If the cart is tail down, not level for proper SRA, mounted to a turntable with no VTA adjustment feature, the tonearm base will need to be raised. For example, if an 18mm cartridge is mounted to a Rega tonearm, the tonearm base will need to be shimmed to get the 18mm cart to be level when tonearm is lowered onto a record.
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Really lol?

A detachable headshell still has no bearing on VTA even if you do post it four times lol.
 
Grenadeslio said:
Michael Fremer has a few comments to say concerning his view on fixed vs removable headshells.
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Fremer has a long of nonsense to say about a lot of things. He was present on a thread about direct drives on VE, he left when he was asked to back up what he was saying. He said direct drive cog, I asked him for the proof he said he had, he never came back. I cant take anyone too seriously who spends thousands on speaker cable then puts it on little wooden stands and talks about how they improve the sound. Hmmm...
Yes if Fremer says so it must be true :)
Chris
 
rebellovw said:
Fremer is a funny character plain and simple. I enjoy his videos for entertainment purposes and his opinions are simply comical - sometimes good and sometimes just out right bad.
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Yes he has some off the wall opinions some are quite amusing some just nuts.
 
Grenadeslio said:
Michael Fremer has a few comments to say concerning his view on fixed vs removable headshells.
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Point is some detachable headshell arms measure extremely well. I can sap a cart in maybe 60 seconds and get arm right level in that time. I have had a lot of fixed headshell arms over the years and I have one now too, still prefer detachable and dont hear any sonic issues.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
Fremer has a long of nonsense to say about a lot of things. He was present on a thread about direct drives on VE, he left when he was asked to back up what he was saying. He said direct drive cog, I asked him for the proof he said he had, he never came back. I cant take anyone too seriously who spends thousands on speaker cable then puts it on little wooden stands and talks about how they improve the sound. Hmmm...
Yes if Fremer says so it must be true :)
Chris
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Yeah I can’t respect him for that cog comment.
 
cafe latte said:
Point is some detachable headshell arms measure extremely well. I can sap a cart in maybe 60 seconds and get arm right level in that time. I have had a lot of fixed headshell arms over the years and I have one now too, still prefer detachable and dont hear any sonic issues.
Chris
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If you've read enough of the audio rags you'll know Fremer has mentioned his preference for fixed "in the past" but has more recently (the past couple of decades) mentioned having no issues with many of the arms with detachable headshells he's reviewed as well.

But funny how you jumped to your conclusion lol.

I only mentioned Michael as a good read for his comments on the two methods.
 
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Grenadeslio said:
If you've read enough of the audio rags you'll know Fremer has mentioned his preference for fixed "in the past" but has more recently mentioned having no issues with many of the arms with detachable headshells he's reviewed as well.

But funny how you jumped to your conclusion lol.

I only mentioned Michael as a good read for his comments on the two methods.
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Fremer is just hilarious, dont take anything he says too seriously, which was my point.
Chris
 
Grenadeslio said:
Really lol?

A detachable headshell still has no bearing on VTA even if you do post it four times lol.
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It does. Take the Ortofon SH-4 for example. It's designed to level an 18mm tall cart on 70's and 80's Asian TT's that were fitted with headshells to level a 15mm tall cart. And, thus, when a tall cart is mounted to the as issued headshell of such a TT and the TT does not have a tonearm which is adjustable for VTA, the result is a tail low cart. To level the cart the headshell must be replaced with one like the Ortofon SH-4, or the tonearm base must be elevated by shimming. In the case of a non-detachable headshell fitted with a too tall cart of course the tonearm base must be shimmed if the TT does not have an adjustable VTA freature.
 
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