Thoughts on 80's equipment

[OMGCat!]

I have an appreciation for wood and silver face but the 400 meters and switches and knobs and whatever else (a tiny CRT in a receiver, really??) comes off as gaudy so I tend to like the lower line vintage receivers more than the top models. To me all of those geegaws are just as obnoxious as a Galaxy Commander and if you need a mini mixing board in your hi-fi you'd be much better served with separates.
Something like an HK330 or the Realistic that Bodyblue posted are sharp no doubt and kind of embody why receivers are good in the first place.

 

[eiraved]

(a tiny CRT in a receiver, really??) comes off as gaudy

Really? I think the oscilloscope used on some of the 70's Marantz receivers were pretty darn cool! I guess to each his own...

 

[OMGCat!]

My uncle had one when I was growing up and I did think it was cool but I don't see how it's any less of a flashy fad than the giant LED displays/silk screened signal paths that showed up on some 80's gear. I personally wouldn't own either but that's just me and my personal taste. I would be equally happy for someone who was digging their CRT Marantz or Galaxy Commander.

 

[eiraved]

but I did think it was cool but I don't see how it's any less of a flashy fad

That's the point, it is a fad, but an expensive one for the designers. I'm not sure of your age, but I thought it was cool at the time, and even more so now that I'm in my late 50's. At the time it was developed, I had no idea of the engineering it would take to install an oscilloscope into commercial equipment and make it interesting enough to sell. The Marantz 2500 sold recently on eBay for a large chunk of money, and I wish I had one now.

 

[OMGCat!]

That's the point, it is a fad, but an expensive one for the designers. I'm not sure of your age, but I thought it was cool at the time, and even more so now that I'm in my late 50's. At the time it was developed, I had no idea of the engineering it would take to install an oscilloscope into commercial equipment and make it interesting enough to sell. The Marantz 2500 sold recently on eBay for a large chunk of money, and I wish I had one now.

I'm just over 40 so it was already a bit old when I got to see it for the first time back in the early 80's.
I was more trying to make a point (not to anyone specifically) that you can't throw stones in glass houses when people started poking fun at the silly displays on 80's stuff.
Back when they made the 2500 putting a scope in there was a big challenge I'm sure but it didn't serve any purpose in making it sound any better, more for a "look what we can do, buy me instead of that Sansui."
In the 80's ICs were starting to be more reasonably priced so they started sticking them into lots of things for the "super futuristic computer controlled digital" effect I guess, but again not making it sound any better. In both cases it was to make a sale and not to make it sound any better. Same thing just separated by a decade.
The monster receivers have gone nuts in price and I wish I bought a few if only to sell but if you look at the prices just a few years ago they weren't nearly as high. I bet in a few more years when 80's nostalgia kicks in to full effect the same thing will happen to the newer gear.

Personally I'm boring when it comes to my system, I just want it to sound good. I don't even like meters on my amps or at least like to be able to switch them off.

 

[loopstick]

In the 80's ICs were starting to be more reasonably priced so they started sticking them into lots of things for the "super futuristic computer controlled digital" effect I guess, but again not making it sound any better. In both cases it was to make a sale and not to make it sound any better.

It made it look better. It's not all about the sound. Looks matter. Fewer moving parts, greater reliability. Reduced component count. Greater reliability. The only reason that IC's (REAL IC's) weren't used previously is that they couldn't use them. The notion that IC's were just a gimmick is remarkably ill informed.

 

[OMGCat!]

I was only comparing gimmick to gimmick (CRT in a 70's receiver to flashy LED front panel in an 80's), trying to make the point that you can't make fun of one without regard to the other if you're going to be any kind of honest. I thought it was a simple comparison but I mustn't have been very clear.
I make half my living trying debug control units who all talk to each other on a CAN or LIN. They are a pain in the ass at times but (from memory) our cars would weigh something like 30lbs. more if everything was point to point wired like back in the good old days as well as be a disaster of complexity if such a thing was even attempted.

 

[Sandstrom]

My uncle had one when I was growing up and I did think it was cool but I don't see how it's any less of a flashy fad than the giant LED displays/silk screened signal paths that showed up on some 80's gear. I personally wouldn't own either but that's just me and my personal taste. I would be equally happy for someone who was digging their CRT Marantz or Galaxy Commander.

The Galaxy Commander is so over the top hideous it is beautiful!

 

[scottyawd]

The Galaxy Commander is so over the top hideous it is beautiful!

I had never seen one before, so I looked it up. Reminds me of a VCR.

Also, I had never owned any gear with VU meters until my Yamaha CA-1010. (Then the LED meters on my ADS A2) The novelty still hasn’t warn off. It’s just neat. Not helping anything, but still fun to look at every once in a while.

 

[slimpikkins]

The gear from 80's and early 90's is the newest good gear I can afford. The stuff from the 90's may not need serviced for a while yet. Love Audio Research Tube gear from '80's of which I own/owned a few pieces. Kenwood Basic stuff is a steal, Hafler, Adcom, Carver, BK, Nad,...what an era for affordable great sounding gear. Not to mention how many fine, affordable, great sets of 80s/90s speakers there are out there to choose from.
Pretty much everything I have in use is from that era and most of my '70's gear needs repaired...
Jim

 

[Sandstrom]

The gear from 80's and early 90's is the newest good gear I can afford. The stuff from the 90's may not need serviced for a while yet. Love Audio Research Tube gear from '80's of which I own/owned a few pieces. Kenwood Basic stuff is a steal, Hafler, Adcom, Carver, BK, Nad,...what an era for affordable great sounding gear. Not to mention how many fine, affordable, great sets of 80s/90s speakers there are out there to choose from.
Pretty much everything I have in use is from that era and most of my '70's gear needs repaired...
Jim

Definitely agree, there is a lot of good 90s era equipment that is at a point right now where it is old enough to be reasonably acquired but not so old that it has entered a 'collectible' vintage point yet...

 

[Mister Pig]

Apparently I have a different take on 80's and 90's era gear. I think of stuff like PS Audio, Superphon, Creek, Amber, Audible Illusions, Sonegraphe, Perreaux, Hafler, GAS, Linn, Naim, Spica, Martin Logan, Celestion, Bryston, Rowland, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Vandersteen, and so on and so forth.

No price cutting on these brands. Excellent sound, but never cheap to buy. Perhaps the MSRP seems low on them to todays offerings, but we got paid less to. Prices have been steadily rising on this era of gear also, as the pieces in excellent condition are starting to command a premium price.

The real bargains are probably in the late 90's, and early 2000 gear now.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[Bodyblue]

I have an appreciation for wood and silver face but the 400 meters and switches and knobs and whatever else (a tiny CRT in a receiver, really??) comes off as gaudy so I tend to like the lower line vintage receivers more than the top models. To me all of those geegaws are just as obnoxious as a Galaxy Commander and if you need a mini mixing board in your hi-fi you'd be much better served with separates.
Something like an HK330 or the Realistic that Bodyblue posted are sharp no doubt and kind of embody why receivers are good in the first place.

I am not really interested in the "Monster" receivers for several reasons. No doubt some of them are pretty garish like the MCS 3125, but some of them are very handsome like the Kenwood KR 9600. I dont care for them because I have no use for much over 50 watts, they were pushing the tech of the day and seem to have more problems 40 years later than the more mainstream lower powered units AND they were freaking HUGE!...... I feel far more drawn to the mid priced units because that is what I saw at the time they were popular. Just like a lot of people geek out over the exotic Muscle Cars of the early 70s, they were rarely seen since they sold in such small numbers. I saw one Mustang Boss 429 when I was a kid but I saw a million 70 Mustangs with regular 302/351s. Sure, they are cool but the prices for some of them are just crazy. There are sill thousands of handsome 20-60 watt classic receivers out there for decent prices (depending on condition). There was a reason the mid priced units were the best sellers: They had the best combination of power/features for the money. The current market for mass market items is still pretty much the same. The BOTL and TOPL sell in far smaller numbers than most mid line products.

 

[stoutblock]

Probably the best system I owned from the 80s was this Nakamichi stack and Dragon (I still own the Dragon). The tuner was nothing special but the pre and amp were very, very good. They sure knew how to make decent phono stages and cassette decks in the 80s!

T-7, CA-7 and PA-7II




This Yamaha stack was pretty darn good too! The T-2 tuner is my favorite!

T-2, C-2x and M-2 (B-2 is even better)



And not to forget the ADS L1090, L1290 and L1590 speakers. I bought these L1090s new and still listen to them daily.

 

[bluesky]

Sansui made superior alpha amplifiers from 1986 through 1989 (to the year 1999).

They still command very high prices (used) today. And Japanese postal shipping the really heavy amp from Japan to USA cost serious $$$ and collectors still don't mind. Fantastic amplifiers.

 

[opusarlo]

This is just my opinion so please lower your rifles...you too...The vintage gear was all on the same page during the 60s-70s with each manufacturer pushing for excellence (Even Fisher and Sherwood had respectable gear!). The early 80's economic slump and mortgage rates puckered up consumer wallets. This eviscerated HiFi who had no choice but to entice with lower prices (lower quality) gear. Some manufacturers folded, and some were diversified enough to at least stay afloat. Vintage gear was officially better than the mainstream modern offerings during the 80s (or at least not sufficiently inferior to warrant purchasing new gear) so people held on to their stuff. This further crippled the HiFi industry. The car audio boom that started in the mid-eighties bolstered some manufacturers (Pioneer, JVC, JBL, CW, Nakamichi etc...) who were then also able to offer a higher level of home gear. The economic boom of the 90s and tech innovations such as laser discs and VHS further boosted HiFi. When Denon offered the world's first true THX home theater system, we literally could hear HiFi revving up. Throngs of people rushed to get into home theater. Many ditched their current systems, and HiFi saw the day of SX-1250s for $25 at Goodwill. This home theater boom generated so much new cash for HiFi, we saw the appearance of boutique HiFi companies investing heavily into R&D on one line of gear only in the efforts to be the best (Avantgarde is a good example). This drove TOTL prices into the stratosphere, but the cash kept coming in because of the home theater boom and the car audio boom. Market penetration of home theater and car audio has to be nearly 80-90% and many affordable options exist for anyone who has not yet purchased HiFi or a booming car system (just look at the number of car audio posts on your local Craigslist). The market has become saturated with high-quality gear, and without any innovation to lure the consumers HiFi will again be in a holding pattern. Whenever and whatever the next innovation is that drives the audiophile rabid again, I will be sure to go get my Mark Levinson amps and Wilson Audio speakers from Goodwill for $10 a piece.

 

[opusarlo]

Anyway...I am sure modern gear is far superior to vintage stuff, but I cannot afford $10k for an AVR. With that said, I can afford what used to be king - vintage gear.

 

[scottyawd]

@opusarlo

Your points are well taken. I have yet to see a Sansui AU-919 or a set of ADS SAT6s at my local thrift store, but prices for equipment from these two decades are "reasonably" priced.

 

[Audiovet]

I had to go back to the first post to remember what the topic actually was. Fine - it was wide open.

Firstly, let me be honest and say that I have very little user-experience of the wide variety of available stuff of any period. I had neither the funds, nor mercifully the need - as an EE I could design/build my own electronics; acquired items were a Thorens TT and Cambridge CD and tuner of rather later vintage. Loudspeakers Philips trios in home built enclosures.

That said, one must keep in mind that manufacturers probably paid attention to demand. In whatever period, hi-fi was never that lucrative that manufacturers could ignore quality as well as taste - and that was true as long ago as the post WWII period of Leak, McIntosh, Quad and similar. Several other posts indicated the ups and downs in other factors, so that in the end production/sold quantities were as much influenced by whatever factors reigned at any period as quality only. Three substantial factors among many more were the advent of semi-conductor devices, home theatre - and, as always - "the Jones's"!

From a technical point of view one has to remember that the height of development/advance in tube equipment was probably the 80s, when the convenience/allure of mass production of semi-conductor stuff started throttling demand for tube-based equipment. This was also a time where the former was still plagued by misunderstanding of the technology etc., rendering equipment of poorer audio quality than somewhat later years.

After that ..... human hearing did not improve with the years (often rather the opposite as a result of ambient factors!), and what was inaudible in the 80s is still inaudible at present. To me development was rather 'horizontal': Hosts of convenience and features which rather doubtfully influenced the audible signal itself, actively helped along by floral promotion featuring an ever increasing degree of nonsense parading as 'facts'.

But that is somewhat off-topic. I would roughly make the sweeping statement that the 80s could well have been somewhat of a peak in what was on the shelves - if such a statement has any value in describing 'real' value. (One might as well try to establish what/when was the most lucrative period for jewelry ......oops!)

And then there were cable 'advances' ......

 

[KentTeffeteller]

There's a lot of really great 80's gear, but for some reason it's harder to find than 70's gear. Dwindling sales?

With this very excellent turntable also, consider that over 98% of them sold weren't in obsidian bases, and not with this tonearm installed. And over 98% of said turntables were not sold to consumer users, but to AM and FM radio stations, recording studios, and to TV stations. And really this is a truly professional grade turntable and tonearm and plinth in every way. The mack daddy of DD turntables in the USA market. And so fine this engineer can and does love it, as he does it's junior siblings.