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Thoughts on the high end....

I've recently readjusted my musical/stereo priorities. I'm shedding lots of my tube collection - actually just building it for the (DIY) amplifiers I have on hand. I'm now using a solid-state preamp (DIY Bride of Zen) and plan to eventually upgrade this to something even more upscale. I just want to listen to music and enjoy the sound I get out of the stereo - not the other way around ;)

I am traveling this road to. I have been a long time tube head, but got tired of the colorations associated with the tubes in my system. I found that I kept picking out the most lean and uncolored tube I could find, especially at the 9 pin mini position. Then I found I kept reconfiguring my system to use less and less tubes. Amps with SS rectifiers, transformer based pre-amp, and what not. Earlier this year I sent my SET amp to a new home, and decided to see if I could live with SS amplification. I settled on a Rowland Model 5 and Consummate pre-amp. Listening to a pair of Mordaunt Short Performance 880 speakers, but hope to try out a set of Eminent Technology LFT 8B magnetic planers. Will I stay a SS person, too early to tell. But the Rowland reminds me of good tubes without the colorations. Only time will tell.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
A couple decades ago, I was a salesman at a high-end audio shop. We carried McIntosh, Crown, Audio Reasearch Corporation, Nakamichi, NAD, Luxman, Denon, the Well-Tempered TT, Duntech, Klipsch, PSB (dropped and added Paradigm), ads, and B&W, to name a few. The owner was a true audiophile, and believed in having the top models on display. I had a lot of fun, learned a lot about equipment, and even more about myself.

Listening to Duntech Sovereigns with Audio Research M300 Monoblock amps and an SP-11 preamp using the WTTT as source was an enjoyable experience that most folks never had the chance to encounter. Big Mc amps pushing Klipschorns, Crown driving a/d/s or Paradigm Studios. The Sovereigns alone were 50 grand, more than I ever hoped or intended to spend on an entire system, let alone a single pair of speakers.

One thing I learned about myself is that I am first and foremost a music lover. Okay, well, I really already knew that...but it was confirmed to me in different ways by having access to all that megadollar gear. For instance, one of my customers was a young college student who had inherited a healthy amount of cash (which he subsequently pissed away by trading cars every six months), and who was considering upgrading his TOTL Nak system to McIntosh. He brought in a stack of cd's, and I was a bit surprised to see that all of them were jazz; I had figured him more for a rock fan.

I said something favorable about his choice of music, and was rather astonished at his reply, "Oh, I really don't like jazz at all - in fact I hate it, but it is about all I listen to anymore because of the sound quality." I actually felt sorry for the guy (and I didn't sell him anything, just didn't want to).

Another thing I learned about myself was that I guess I am just a bit of a cheapskate; not a total one, but a bit of one. The systems that always impressed me most weren't the very top models; heck I expected them to sound great. What would blow me away was how good an NAD or Nakamichi receiver could sound with a pair of Paradigm 5se's with my own old Thorens TT, for example. Such systems would provide for me the same musical enjoyment as the TOTL models/brands.

I was always the top salesman during my stint there; everyone said that was because of my enthusiasm, and a decent knowledge base garnered from 15 years of reading and rereading every Stereo Review, Audio, Stereophile, etc. magazine that I got my hands on. That enthusiasm grew out of my love of music. For me, it is not about analyzing how well a system performs one facet or another of all the things we say we value in a system, but how quickly I forget about the system and become immersed in the music.

I guess I am lucky in that I don't have to own the most expensive gear in order to reach that immersion. On the other hand, I have seen some people who can't get there regardless of the price paid. It's not the sound of the system, it's the sound of music.

Well, that was too long and boring I guess, but this is a way old thread and nobody's gonna read it anyway. Besides, I was immersed in Beethoven's Third Symphony as I wrote, so it took a while and my thoughts kept wandering back to the music (NAD receiver and Klipsch speakers - yeah, I'm a cheap date).
 
I hear ya, musichal. It's all about the music.
I find myself listening more and more to my bedroom system, rather than my main system.

It's just not that much "fun" anymore, turning on several pieces of equipment, letting them warm up a little, and listening to make sure nothing has magically gone wrong since I last fired it up...

While the sound of the main 2 channel rig is "Bigger, better, faster, more" I still find myself footstomping and head banging, all with an imaginary '59 Gibson Gold Top Sunburst slung way down low.
 
Hi Musichal. Man, I forgot about this thread. Yep, I've encountered people like you who listen to certain types of music just because it's recorded well. I think of this everytime somebody plays Diana Krall for me, commenting on how well it's recorded instead of how great the music is. It may or may not be, depending on your taste..but to only listen to the sound of your system, instead of the sound of the music..I run across that a lot. People who want to brag about their system, but who don't really listen to the music.

I've heard $30,000 systems that have left me cold, and $30,000 systems that made me 'see god'. I'm happy, though, with my carefully picked/auditioned system that just get's me into heaven for less $$$. I may or may not see God, but it sure sounds nice.
 
It took awhile to get through this entire thread. I will not go over all the ground covered, but I went back to the original question, being the one step forward two steps back nature of this hobby.

System synergy is key, and replacing a component may just tradeoff one set of issues for another.

Another variable to the problem is us and how we change over time. We have all experienced this, listening to our stereo and everything seems locked in. Then for no apparent reason, we are dissatisfied, something just sounds wrong. This time last year, I acquired some vintage gear and was thrilled with the sound of it. Today, I the sound of my vintage stuff uninvolving compared to my somewhat newer gear. The gear didn't change, I did.
 
A good indication in my system is that I haven't switched anything out in two months. I've just been listening. I have amps and preamps and receivers and tuners and CD players laying around all over, but I finally got the magic with a particular combo. I really do think it's about synergy. Not that there isn't good and bad gear, but the best is when great gear just works well together. The sum of the parts is the magic.
 
A good indication in my system is that I haven't switched anything out in two months. I've just been listening. I have amps and preamps and receivers and tuners and CD players laying around all over, but I finally got the magic with a particular combo. I really do think it's about synergy. Not that there isn't good and bad gear, but the best is when great gear just works well together. The sum of the parts is the magic.

Once you find that magic, leave it alone and enjoy it until it goes away, hopefully not for some time.
 
Speaking of high end, I will convey a recent story.

A friend of mine, loaded, has always been into high end. Sometimes deeper than others. He recently changed his CD player for a newer, multi player. His original high-endish CD player was italian made with an obscure name I can't recall. The finish on the deck was simply awful. Shiny steel front plate and philips screws on the facia.

This deck had started to exhibit some misreads and his favourite technician said it could not be repaired. So he entrusted me to have a look inside.

What I saw inside was a disgrace.

An unshielded transformer mounted on the base.
A small PS PCB with an inadequate capacitor (1600uF)
A notebook style transport mounted on rubber feet.
A small PCB with (what appears to be a DAC) mounted somewhere else.

The cables inside were just going from one place to the other. Not many cables of course, but they gave the impression of a hasty DIY project.

I suggested that we might be able to replace the transport with a similar (Teac) notebook drive off ebay. But my friend was changing colors, as he had paid 1,300 euros for that thing.
 
Interesting post, Sasi.
While some items in the high end are meticulously engineered and crafted, there are those in which some, shall we say, short cuts are taken.

I know Art Dudley told a story of receiving a very high quality, big dollar tone arm to test some years ago. Shortly after receiving it, he was in a public washroom and realized that the VTA adjuster they used was just a plumbing fixture! I gotta dig up that quote sometime.

:D
 
I can relate here. My livingroom system just does things right for me. I love it, and have hesitantly considered switching preamps to get a remote control. I just can't bring myself to do it, I am afraid of what might happen. That is where my PSE gear resides and my Infinity RSIIs.

Now, my listening room system... its always in a state of flux. It seems like its never really "right". I haven't found the magic combo, or maybe I just have no freaking idea what I am looking for.

I can't tell you how wide the sound stage is in my living room, or how well it images. It just makes great music. Anyone in my house/apartment who likes music has commented on how good it sounded.

Evan
 
Not That Uncommon. . .

Local repair guy says he is regularly shocked at what he sees inside very high end, very expensive gear. Often the same OEM compenents you'd see if you looked inside a piece of off-brand or discount brand gear.


Speaking of high end, I will convey a recent story.

A friend of mine, loaded, has always been into high end. Sometimes deeper than others. He recently changed his CD player for a newer, multi player. His original high-endish CD player was italian made with an obscure name I can't recall. The finish on the deck was simply awful. Shiny steel front plate and philips screws on the facia.

This deck had started to exhibit some misreads and his favourite technician said it could not be repaired. So he entrusted me to have a look inside.

What I saw inside was a disgrace.

An unshielded transformer mounted on the base.
A small PS PCB with an inadequate capacitor (1600uF)
A notebook style transport mounted on rubber feet.
A small PCB with (what appears to be a DAC) mounted somewhere else.

The cables inside were just going from one place to the other. Not many cables of course, but they gave the impression of a hasty DIY project.

I suggested that we might be able to replace the transport with a similar (Teac) notebook drive off ebay. But my friend was changing colors, as he had paid 1,300 euros for that thing.
 
Over the years I have gone from my first monaural Davd Bogen DB10 tube amp a sort of non descript TT and a wide range 12" speaker built into the corner of my bedroom in a bass reflex enclosure. The Bogen gave way to a Grommes and that gave way to a home built and designed FM tuner, a PP EL84 ultra linear stereo amp and a Rek-O Kut 33-1/3 single apeed TT with a modified Livingstone arm, forget the cart but it was probably a GE VR. Speakers were Richard Allen 10" in home built bass reflex enclosures. Next was Kenwood/Trio 3000 SS receiver, a Dual 1015 TT and Celestion 12" co-axials again in home built enclosures. Somewhere along that trail I had a pair of Celestion mini monitors that were amazing for their tiny size. Some changes were dictated by space more that any idea of an upgrade.

Then came a Yamaha A-1 integrated, Polk Monitor 7Bs and a Rega Planar 2, the TT and speakers I still have. Now the 7Bs are paired with a Yamaha CR-2020 in the family room, no space for a TT, just a Sony DVD/VCR. The Rega sits beside one of my PCs for transferring LPs to CD.

In the upstairs bedroom is a Yamaha CR-1000 with NS-670 speakers, a K-1000 cassette and an Onkyo R1 CDP along with a Pioneer PL88FS TT.

Ten feet away from me is a Yamaha CR-2040 with NS-690s, a Yamaha CDC-755 CDP a K-1000 cassette and a PX-2 TT with Denon DL160.

Over in the shop is a Yamaha CR-800 with Polk Monitor 10Bs, a Pioneer PL44FS TT, a Yamaha K-850 cassette and a CD-2 CDP.

Why all the boring detail? Just because you need to realize that classical music is my drug, I cannot exist without it playing wherever I happen to be. Most of these units were TOTL in their day and they all still do the job.

I really don't know most of the terms used in this thread; detail - does this mean hearing Segovia's calloused fingers sliding up or down the strings?, imaging - does this mean are the instruments placed where they should be? musicality - is this what I feel when it seems that I can reach out and touch Sarah Brightman?

Are there fancier systems? You betcha, but what I have does the job. I am hooked on music and I really don't want to be cured thank you very much.
 
A funny twist on this. In Octobers SP Art Dudley starts his review of the Naim CD 555 cd player by telling us that the standard issue cd system in his 2001 Subaru playing some Martin Newel brought him close to tears.
While The same piece through a 6K int. amp 3.5K cdp and 2K speakers bored the pants off of him.
System matching was the gist. There's more to this though.

Many Subarus Have McIntosh stereos.
 
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A rather famous engineer once said (and I might paraphrase) "If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it measures bad, but sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing." And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the truth regardless of cost, era, lineage, or others' opinions.:thmbsp:

That really is one of the best and most truthful quotes about audio. I consider measurements to be important, but the final proof is in the actual presentation of music. Does your rig allow you to escape into the music and just enjoy?

A few of the pieces that I have reviewed over the years grabbed me and took me away. I lost fact that I was reviewing it and just enjoyed the moment. Some of those pieces I bought as they continue to ring true to my inner soul to this day.

I will agree with those that recognize that too many audio companies lack an absolute musical fanatic as the leader or chief designer. I did an interview with Vince Bruzzesi of Totem. The engineering and other science of speaker building happens during the initial development stage, but the critical part comes from the thousands of hours listening/tuning/listening some more.

In the end, no one can tell you what is the best gear for you. Advice and reviews should narrow your search, but in the end, compare pieces in you rig, if possible. Then chose the components that ring most true to your inner musical soul.
 
This music audio business, is pretty complex. I have been in it for many a decades; listened to and owned many systems, both high and low. I have come to realised that if the aggregate of your audio units hit your musical spot, try to leave well alone. In addition try to know what aspect of the music floats your boat. In my situation I discovered that I love full bodied tone, possibly because I was brought up listening to tube telefunken radios. Hence my preference for Mac 240 and old Sonys. Is this sound colored or accurate? I could care less. I think also that I was fortunate to find a gem of a speaker in Sound Dynamics RTS-3 (worth a million dollars).
By the way, Bigerik, in your first post of this thread you "quoted" from a Listener mag. What Vol and number was it? I think I have all past issues. That was a great audio mag.
 
"I really don't know most of the terms used in this thread; detail - does this mean hearing Segovia's calloused fingers sliding up or down the strings?, imaging - does this mean are the instruments placed where they should be? musicality - is this what I feel when it seems that I can reach out and touch Sarah Brightman?

Are there fancier systems? You betcha, but what I have does the job. I am hooked on music and I really don't want to be cured thank you very much."

The voice of wisdom and experience---although it may take some people 20 years and thousands of dollars before they realise it. :thmbsp:
 
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