Todays Speakers vs Vintage Speakers

[twiiii]

Between synthetics , composites, and new magnetic materials and designs speakers today should be better in every way. But due to designer choices in voicing and compromises forced on them by the buying public demands speakers aren't always all they can be. Pricing for exotic materials also has curtailed the demand by the public who have looked else where for more value of entertainment per dollar. Who would have thought headphones and earbuds would become popular again. Its all about the dollar, Euro or Pound it seems. The idea of paying $100,000 + for a speaker let alone a pair is just obscene.

Its the same with electronics. But why is there folks who value their Sansui and particular early series of Mac tube amps? They are certainly not the equal of some other brands or current models, but they are loved all the same. The same goes for loudspeakers. I fear some of todays speaker designers are after a different sound than some of us. We want to hear sound as if were were at the live performance, not what happens in the recording studio. I admit we are a minority, but the industry is really alienating future listeners making great sound unaffordable and looking ugly to boot.

 

[Guest126]

I'm not sure if that's an apples to apples type of question. I would have to say that perhaps speakers reached their peak in terms of performance maybe between '86 to '89. You have to spend a fair coin today (well in the past as well) to get a good solid set of speakers. The speaker genre isn't quite as handicapped as the turntable genre, as there are a few competent brands and models available in today's market, that aren't necessarily unapproachable.

I would have to call it a draw for now, as I've heard good new speakers as well as excellent vintage speakers.

 

[Drum]

But the vintage speaker is now cheap so you don’t have to settle for low end. I doubt any modern $100 speakers can beat something like an ADS 520, EPI 100 or Avid 102 etc. All are around $100 or so.

 

[grillebilly]

Some of the most sought after and expensive speakers are more than 40 years old. I would bet it has more to do with SQ than how they look. But like everything else in the world, technology has improved so much that there is no reason a modern speaker shouldn't be able to best a vintage one. Just be prepared to spend some dough.

 

[musichal]

Give them your poor, your tired, your muddled, massy cones yearning to breathe free. I'll take mine new and made of alloys that didn't exist in yesteryears. I'm swimming against the tide here, but the worst that will happen is someone will throw verbal rocks.

Really, there were great speakers then, and there are great speakers now, and there were crummy ones then, and there are crummy ones now. My advice? Whether vintage, or new, avoid the crummy ones. I prefer no-maintenance necessary new... sorta. Well, my thirty-something Klipsch Fortes (I thought you said avoid the crummy ones, musichal) sound pretty great to me. As do my new Monitor Audio.

 

[georgy-]

If it sounds good it sounds good right?

 

[tubed]

Head in Sand?
I haven't heard a new speaker for decades, and longer.
I don't consider myself to have my head in the sand as I am lucky to have some of the best sounding older offerings. I hate to call them vintage because although they aren't contemporary, some seem quite modern.
To consider and pursue something $new$ and better would seem a bit excessive and overindulgent, even out of curiosity.
To each his own

 

[Mark Davis]

Thanks for all of your responses.

The reason I asked is a recently got a pair of ADVENT / 1's for very little.

The grills are a little different looking than most pictures I have seen. They were made in March of 1979 stamped on the inside of the speaker.

I have recapped from suggestions on this forum, but have not put them into a vintage system yet.

I was putting flooring in my den and running speaker wire behind the baseboard.

I have a Pioneer SX-440 I just relamped with LED and cleaned. I also have a Sony STR-6046A that has been resurrected.

I know neither of these piece's are the Mack Daddys. But they are both gorgeous now cleaned up.

I was not sure what sound I would get once I have everything setup. Sounds like I might be happy.

 

[musichal]

Head in Sand?
I haven't heard a new speaker for decades, and longer.
I don't consider myself to have my head in the sand as I am lucky to have some of the best sounding older offerings. I hate to call them vintage because although they aren't contemporary, some seem quite modern.
To consider and pursue something $new$ and better would seem a bit excessive and overindulgent, even out of curiosity.
To each his own

I can understand your not wanting to call them $vintage$.

 

[malden]

But the vintage speaker is now cheap so you don’t have to settle for low end. I doubt any modern $100 speakers can beat something like an ADS 520, EPI 100 or Avid 102 etc. All are around $100 or so.

My EPI 100's are the best small box speaker I have heard.

 

[z-adamson]

New top of the line speakers may beat out old top of the line speakers.

That's not what it's about though.

It would cost THOUSANDS to get a new pair of speakers that will perform better than let's say.....HPM100, L100, L110, 4311, L112.

That's what it's about.

 

[Ds2000]

I'm not sure if that's an apples to apples type of question. I would have to say that perhaps speakers reached their peak in terms of performance maybe between '86 to '89. You have to spend a fair coin today (well in the past as well) to get a good solid set of speakers. The speaker genre isn't quite as handicapped as the turntable genre, as there are a few competent brands and models available in today's market, that aren't necessarily unapproachable.

I would have to call it a draw for now, as I've heard good new speakers as well as excellent vintage speakers.

I do have to see that there was an amazing push in speaker technology from 82-92, especially in Japan, but here too. As for the Japanese, we saw very few of those models, one notable that did make it was the Sony APM speakers (the real four coil woofer APM’s). Additionally computer aided designs and laser interferometry (sp) helped push the future to the now. I have a couple in my ownership which applied real over the top engineering with rare earth metals, cross woven carbon fiber, ceramics and diamond, meticulous cabinet design and anti vibration technology, and the list goes on and on.
With American high end like the large four piece Sonographe, the early Wilson's, the large Snells, Thiel et all, they were voiced for large scale performance and huge dynamic range. So (having the ability to go anywhere in this big city and hear the latest, which I do) and not feel like I’m missing anything. In fact, sometimes it’s just the opposite. So maybe I just prefer that voicing?

 

[z-adamson]

Give them your poor, your tired, your muddled, massy cones yearning to breathe free. I'll take mine new and made of alloys that didn't exist in yesteryears. I'm swimming against the tide here, but the worst that will happen is someone will throw verbal rocks.

Really, there were great speakers then, and there are great speakers now, and there were crummy ones then, and there are crummy ones now. My advice? Whether vintage, or new, avoid the crummy ones. I prefer no-maintenance necessary new... sorta. Well, my thirty-something Klipsch Fortes (I thought you said avoid the crummy ones, musichal) sound pretty great to me. As do my new Monitor Audio.

Old speakers are for those that like to tinker, like to collect, are nostalgic and want great sound without spending thousands on the speakers alone.

You want instant gratification, you want maintenance free. You probably are not nostalgic and don't care about collectability. That's fine.

I enjoy the hunt, the restoration and listening to the results of my work and the work of engineers of the past.

There is more to the speaker hobby than just buying and listening. If that's how it was then there would be ZERO market for vintage audio. As it is however, the market is rather large.

 

[mashaffer]

Difference is probably (IMO) more a matter of philosophy. This is no doubt some advances in fancy materials and modelling capabilities but I think in large measure (leaving aside the mortgage the kid's inheritance high end) what used to be done with large efficient drivers in big boxes with relatively small excursion is accomplished more or less with smaller, less efficient drivers in high WAF small boxes using special motor tricks to control distortions that would otherwise result from the hlgher excursion and gigawatt amplifiers.

 

[mashaffer]

No rock throwing Musichal... Different strokes for different folks.

 

[z-adamson]

If you haven't heard any new speakers, then you can't judge. And yes, that is like having your head in the sand. You are making an uninformed opinion but it is your choice. Giving that uninformed opinion to others is poor form. This is what you are doing....

You also think two 8in woofers has more cone area than one 12in woofer...

 

[tubed]

If you haven't heard any new speakers, then you can't judge. And yes, that is like having your head in the sand. You are making an uninformed opinion but it is your choice. Giving that uninformed opinion to others is poor form. This is what you are doing....

Judged?
I simply stated I never developed an interest or need to pursue new speakers.
Head in sand or general lack of interest on my part, to each his own

 

[musichal]

Old speakers are for those that like to tinker, like to collect, are nostalgic and want great sound without spending thousands on the speakers alone.

You want instant gratification, you want maintenance free. You probably are not nostalgic and don't care about collectability. That's fine.

I enjoy the hunt, the restoration and listening to the results of my work and the work of engineers of the past.

There is more to the speaker hobby than just buying and listening. If that's how it was then there would be ZERO market for vintage audio. As it is however, the market is rather large.

Not nostalgic? Hardly. You did catch the part about my thirty-something-year-old speakers, right? I have collected a lot over the years, but not many were kept. I have built my own speakers in the past - my woodworking skills exceeded my acoustic design competence. I have tinkered. Instant gratification? Would you like to hear about how I built up to what I have? I'm wordy, but War and Peace would pale by comparison. Write of something you know.

I'm no longer physically able-bodied, remote control is a must. Just because I dropped some bucks into a system, it doesn't imply your take. That is an incorrect inference you drew. The word really beginning the second paragraph, implies what went before was not really. An inference you missed. I love the look of vintage, but go a different way for electronics, and for speakers, too, mostly.

So now that I've explained, let's just be audio buds, and assume we both understand that the hobby means various things to various people, and that it can change over time. Cut each other some slack, eh?

 

[spark1]

If you haven't heard any new speakers, then you can't judge. And yes, that is like having your head in the sand. You are making an uninformed opinion but it is your choice. Giving that uninformed opinion to others is poor form. This is what you are doing....

He did not make a judgement...simply stated that he has not listened to newer/modern speakers because he is happy with his old ones.

 

[62caddy]

My opinion frankly is that performance/cost ratio is - on average - better with new speakers than vintage.

Vintage often carries the cost of nostalgia - which, while definitely having value to the right audience, is of no value to SQ. High condition can push the ratio off even further out of favor. Performance is obtainable today at much lower cost than had been available in years past at the same price, more so after inflation is taken into account.

*The above assumes fair market prices; garage sales and other outlier "scores" outside this discussion.