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Toe In

So I gave it a try. Just to keep things confusing, I both eliminated the toe in and switched to 8 ohm taps. It's like I have new speakers. Different, interesting, I'm still not settled though. The soundstage is magnificent, almost awesome. However there seems to be a bit more harshness. I'm not sure why. I think I like it this way overall. I'll try it for a while.

Thanks for all the feedback!
 
I would be suspect about putting speakers on a lazy susan. Perhaps if it could lock in place it would be okay, but still not as stable as feet and certainly not as good as spikes.

Remember that your speakers vibrate somewhat violently and mounting a vibrating box on a movable platform will cause it to...move! I would guess that your speakers would always be slightly shifting where they are pointing which will cause all kinds of problems.
 
I bet those don't hold about 300 lbs of speakers either... Easier to just set it and forget it... the speakers that is.. :D
 
Another night of listening toe-out and 8 ohm taps. First, I managed to get BOTH 501's to go into full protection shut-down. This NEVER happened on the 4 ohm taps, so back to 4 ohms they go. I am still playing with the toe angles. I toe'd in just slightly and I think I'm getting there. The sound stage is much bigger, which I love. But there definately seems to be a harsher edge, that titanium effect. Has anyone experienced similar just from the speaker angle? Any ideas for smoothing out that edge?
 
jrsystems said:
I toe'd in just slightly and I think I'm getting there. The sound stage is much bigger, which I love. But there definately seems to be a harsher edge, that titanium effect. Has anyone experienced similar just from the speaker angle? Any ideas for smoothing out that edge?
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Has to do with strong side wall reflections. Listening fatigue is also caused when the ear tries to selectively listen to the direct source that is competing with powerful side wall reflections, it tires the brain. Either treat the side walls at the reflection points using the "mirror method" or use more toe in.
 
JR.......Some 2' x 4' acoustical panels will probably help your first reflection problems. I have installed four 2' x 4' acoustical panels, and four 2' x 2' acoustical panels, plus two bass traps in my living room. The improvement was dramatic. Slap echo was completely eliminated, a bad standing wave problem in one coner is now under control, and imaging improved substantially. My panels are from ATS Acoustics, and the bass traps are from Echo Buster, although there are many companys making good sound control products. If your listening room is untreated, that should be your next investment. The audible improvements are worth the investment.
 
jdandy said:
JR.......Some 2' x 4' acoustical panels will probably help your first reflection problems. I have installed four 2' x 4' acoustical panels, and four 2' x 2' acoustical panels, plus two bass traps in my living room. The improvement was dramatic. Slap echo was completely eliminated, a bad standing wave problem in one coner is now under control, and imaging improved substantially. My panels are from ATS Acoustics, and the bass traps are from Echo Buster, although there are many companys making good sound control products. If your listening room is untreated, that should be your next investment. The audible improvements are worth the investment.
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WAF kills room treatments :no:. I guess I need to continue to continue to fiddle with my placement :sigh:.
 
Toe in Toe out doesn't matter

what does matter is soundstage and CENTER IMAGE:thmbsp:

You have to move the speakers around until the soundstage and image are correct from your listening position.

obstacles and room affect reflections and can play tricks:thumbsdn:

The ONLY thing that counts is what position makes that happen:scratch2:

mine is incredibly left toed in and right toed almost out.

This is because my room is uneven not symmetrical but from my listening position you would think ONLY the center speaker was playing in stereo (meaning really left & right speakers are the only ones playing):tresbon:
 
Yes, what Misterdoggy1 said above. I would get yourself a test CD or record (if that applies) and make your adjustments with the "My voice should be in the center of the loud speakers" track.
 
jrsystems said:
WAF kills room treatments :no:. I guess I need to continue to continue to fiddle with my placement :sigh:.
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Build or buy some Planter traps for the corners...

planter1.jpg



I built my own using Rockwool panels and Guilford cloth from ATS, baskets from The Basketlady and silk plants from Overstock.com

http://www.basketlady.biz/customer/product.php?productid=142&cat=1&page=1
 
That is actually a REALLY good idea. My father's wife uses actual live foliage around his speakers to hide cables that are exposed going to the speaker taps. It actually helps to prevent a lot of vibration behind them. Plant WAF = high, Wall treatment WAF = low.
 
All tweeters, horn, domes, or panel are very directional in the last few octaves. If the speaker is voiced in a balanced way you will want to toe them in. If the highs are overpowering you may prefer the speaker pointing straight ahead so you are off the tweeter axis at your center seating position.

Thanks,
Ron-C
 
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