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Tonearm - straight or curved

Holst said:
I've asked this elsewhere on AK, but why aren't owners of those old 70's Pioneers and Marantz and others with "S" arms buying MC's like the Denons, AT and lower priced Benz Micros and going to town.
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Some of it has to do with not wanting to track at over 2 grams which is necessary with low compliance carts. A lot of it is expense. Many people use vintage tables to save money. It's hard to justify paying more for a cart than the table is worth.
 
So what I should be doing is taking the V15III MR(Vn35MR) off the SL1200mkII and putting on a Denon MC? Does anyone actually know the mass of the techincs arm, I believe it is 12g which puts it right on the money as heading towards lightweight.
 
The V15III MR is a fantastic cart and should work great on a 1200, I'm not saying you need to switch.
My comment was intended for MC fans that a great way to go would be like pustelniakr. I was also refering to arms like his, it just strikes me that it would be a heck of a match.
I don't know the mass of your arm, but if it's light, a V15 is hard to beat.
 
packrat said:
He is correct, there is no geometrical difference in J,S, or straight arms. The mechanical differences in how they are put together determine whether an arm will produce azimuth error over the playing arc due to warps. You could build an arm shaped like a pretzel, and as long as the pivot-stylus distance, pivot-spindle distance, and offset angle are correct for the selected null points it will work as intended with 0 degree offset angle at the selected null points.
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You may be correct about S vs J. I can't prove this, but I swear I remember reading something about this matter many years ago.

However I'm quite certain that a truly straight arm (ei. one with no offset, and no angle to the headshell) is a different matter all together. It is physicaly impossible for a truly straight arm to be tangent at more than one point along its arc. And the azimuth error at the outside, and at the inside of the record will be quite large.

That is not the case with both the S & J shaped arms, which have pretty minimal error, if designed properly.
 
Thanks Holst, that combination of the V15IIIMR and the SL1200mkII sounds the best to me. I want to put something on my Pioneer PLL1000a but I have nothing suitable. Everything I have tried sounds a bit bass light so far.
 
I belive one of the reasons that was missed here, was that straight tone arms had a tendency to resonate causing much unwanted noise. S shaped tone arms solve this problem, more or less to a greater degree. This is why higher end turntables that had straight tone arms, were made out of wood that would not resonate. With S shaped tone arms, just like electricity, sound likes to go in straight lines, not around corners. Making it S shaped, increased the tone arm length lessing this effect. The tone arms were also hollow tubes, giving it a tad bit more mass to help. I remember reading this when my Father got a turn table back in the late 50's. I forgot what make it was, but the tome arm was made out of rosewood. Other woods that has lots of "air" in them, like balsa, were used. You also have to take in account the tracking forces that were used on some of the available cartridges at the time and what types of equipment you used to listen to your vinal. Even today, your high end tone arms are made of composite materials that dampen any resonate frequencies very nicely and are hollow, not solid like the older ones were. However, the S shape was and still is a standard on a lot of new units also. Whether it is fashion, who knows....but that was the main reason for the shape.
 
Here is something else to throw into in the mix for thought.For us vintage Quad guys who listen to CD-4 records,we need the tracking to be perfect at the start and the finish of the record to keep that 30 Mhz carrier light on to avoid the dreaded splatter effect.I use a pioneer with a S shaped tonearm and get perfect CD-4 coming through at 1.2 grams,yet some of my Quad co-horts over at Quadraphonic Quad forums get the same results using a straight one,I think it's all about alignment no matter what the shape.
 
You don't need my opinion, trust your ears. I have a light tonearm and my V15 isn't going anywhere.
 
Think it's high time that this thread gets a little visual relief. Something so beautiful that we'll forget about the gnarly complexities and be reminded why we're all in this for the duration.

Since Pilotprose wrote of the olden days use of wood in tonearms, thought I'd post a couple of pics of a modern DIY wooden unipivot designed by Francois, a violin maker in France.

2j3kth5.jpg


448h7k6.jpg


- Mario
 
goldear said:
You may be correct about S vs J. I can't prove this, but I swear I remember reading something about this matter many years ago.

However I'm quite certain that a truly straight arm (ei. one with no offset, and no angle to the headshell) is a different matter all together. It is physicaly impossible for a truly straight arm to be tangent at more than one point along its arc. And the azimuth error at the outside, and at the inside of the record will be quite large.

That is not the case with both the S & J shaped arms, which have pretty minimal error, if designed properly.
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You are right about a straight arm with no headshell offset angle - it will have very high tracking error except at one spot if installed correctly. However, if you built an S or J or even pretzel shaped arm with no offset angle at the headshell you would achieve the same thing. The only point I'm trying to stress is that from a geometry perspective the arm shape doesn't matter. From a cost of manufacturing, aesthetic, tube resonance or marketing point of view then arm shape could (does?) make a difference. Personally, I don't like the look of a skinny straight arm like the Infinity Black Widow or some Grace arms. But a Rega RB-300, SME V, or a Linn looks fine to me. Strange perhaps, but that's just me.
 
Hi Dave,

Afraid this is a one-of-a-kind tonearm that Francois is making for himself. International agreements on Endangered Species will keep it that way – at least, for some of the wood incorporated here. The tube (stick) is made out of Pernambucco which has been used for centuries in violin bows because of its stiffness and non-resonant properties. These trees can no longer be logged legally and import restrictions are tight. Francois has a Brazilian source that reclaims the wood from previously felled stock – old telegraph/telephone poles, I believe – which is legal.

And this is very much a work still in progress. He’s waiting on the Ruby bearing (inverted V cup) and he hasn’t settled on an anti-skate mechanism yet, though I expect it will be something hidden.

It does have the power to inspire those who have the tools or want to contract shops to make up components. I’d expect that even with outsourcing some of the work, one might put together such an arm for less than the price of a Rega 300. Here’s a link for a Ruby bearing for under $10: http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/vja-hst.cfm

And of course there’s no guarantee that it will sound as beautiful as it looks.

- Mario
 
You can buy these two the Scheu on top and the Schroeder on the bottom.

They are a little spendy, the Schroeder reference goes for $5500. It would look real nice on the Galibier turntable I'll never be able to afford.
 

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