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Tools for alignment

Raccoon1400

Raccoon1400

Super Member
I really want to learn how to do tuner alignment, but I need the equipment. Is it possible to obtain the necessary equipment without going broke? Is there software so I can use a computer to work as some of the tools? I know I need a scope and an fm signal generator. What else do I need?
 
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Scope that can read past 10 MHz, sweep generator (what you referred to as FM signal generator), frequency counter, plus an audio sig gen, and other usual test equipment such as DMM.

Having said that...I've done AM/SW alignments and though I'm comfortable with those, FM alignments are another level above and beyond. There's a lot of subtle nuances to do the job right.
 
I've done other work on amps like resetting specs, recapping, replacing outputs. I'm studying engineering and have used scopes and function generators at school, so I have some idea what I'm dealing with.
 
Raccoon1400 said:
I've done other work on amps like resetting specs, recapping, replacing outputs. I'm studying engineering and have used scopes and function generators at school, so I have some idea what I'm dealing with.
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I am certainly not a tech, but not knowing your background, there is a tendency to be cautious giving out info. Especially since there are others reading this forum or searching info on tuner alignment. I know at least one tech here who gets disturbed by some of the tuner advice given as if it was so simple.

The nuances include knowing how much finesse a little turn can affect, iron slugs can crack and crumble, knowing you may have to repeat steps "until no further improvement is achieved." Also, knowing what adjustments may not require special equipment. Good to know even if you are not studying engineering.

I recommended a service manual because it will cover the adjustment steps, identify adjustment points and values, and the equipment required that you ask about and identify replacement parts.

Don't feel insulted, but I would also assume you know that plastic non-conductive tools are also recommended.
 
terra1 said:
Don't feel insulted, but I would also assume you know that plastic non-conductive tools are also recommended.
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Yes, I'm aware of that. I assume its because metal tools will increase reception and therefore change what is being observed. I've looked through the steps in service manuals, and it doesn't look like a walk in the park, but I want to try. Fixing stereos is my summer project, so I have time to work through the steps and see what I can do. Twice now I've spend hours restoring a badly damaged receiver only to find it has tuner issues I don't know how to fix. I want to be able to take a receiver and get all parts running smoothly again.
 
Regarding plastic tools, yes indeed. I have never aligned a tuner but have done a tape deck and metal tools do indeed affect the measurements (at least when the adjusters, eg. trim-pots, are also metal).

Regarding tuner alignment, why is it such a black art that nobody is willing to reveal??? Never mind warnings of us students potentially ruining our tuners -- that's our problem. People just don't seem to want to explain it, the information doesn't seem (to me) to be available on the 'net and it seems to me this "art" is going disappear unrecorded into history and be taken to the grave with the seemingly few who know about it.
 
fortycoats said:
Regarding plastic tools, yes indeed. I have never aligned a tuner but have done a tape deck and metal tools do indeed affect the measurements (at least when the adjusters, eg. trim-pots, are also metal).

Regarding tuner alignment, why is it such a black art that nobody is willing to reveal??? Never mind warnings of us students potentially ruining our tuners -- that's our problem. People just don't seem to want to explain it, the information doesn't seem (to me) to be available on the 'net and it seems to me this "art" is going disappear unrecorded into history and be taken to the grave with the seemingly few who know about it.
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Actually much of the alignment procedures are available on the net in service manuals. What you should worry about is if the service manuals are no longer available.

Everything is there as far as the technical steps.

Since, the service manual is there, why would anyone want to go over that with anybody here? And each tuner can have different schematics and layout. What isn't provided is the experience and nuances and pitfalls. That's where the black art comes in. And each individual's motivation to pursue.

Warnings are important. So if you decide to pursue it on your own, then it's on you.

Disclaimer: You can ruin your tuner. But you knew that. :D

There, you have everything to proceed if you choose. And I have a clear conscience. ;)
 
I would suggest a Sencore SG165 to start off learning. That with FFT scope software that can do THD. A multi-meter and a freq counter. The manual for the Sencore has some good info in it.

FM alignments are a black art. Much of it is just years of experience. Many manuals have huge errors. Some steps missing or gives you a procedure using specialized test equipment. You need to interpret the circuit and figure out how to really do the adjustment.

Also requires a magic touch that requires years to acquire. Some adjustments are very touchy and it takes just the right touch to get it in right. Experience also come into play in determining what is close enough, or you could spend all day trying to get the adjustment exactly to what the manual says.
 
Punker X said:
I would suggest a Sencore SG165 to start off learning. That with FFT scope software that can do THD. A multi-meter and a freq counter. The manual for the Sencore has some good info in it
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Where can I get the sencore? I dont see any on ebay. I have a meter that measures frequency.

Tuners sound like nasty pieces of work.
 
There will be a Sencore on Ebay eventually. They are a dime a dozen, usually 2 or 3 up at a time.
 
I see references to a multiplex stereo generator, for the mpx alignment. Does the sencore do that, or is that another thing I need?
Is there computer software that can do any of this?
 
The Sencore has a built in MPX generator. Also does AM, crystal controlled 10.7Mhz, sweep with markers, 400hz audio, 67khz. Does it all, just not that just not that well.

Great to learn on without spending too much. Not good enough for professional work. Would have been handy for house calls back in the day.
 
This is a really good recommendation from Mike... you should consider doing exactly what he suggests.

The SG-165 is simple in design, comes with a useful manual to lead you into the alignment process. It's not surgically accurate when compared to other more expensive solutions but is capable of doing a reasonably good job of aligning most vintage tuners or receivers when used correctly, and it's easy enough to use that you won't be afraid to start using it.

As Mike said, just watch eBay and one will come along at a very reasonable price.

Also, get the service manual for the tuner/receiver in question. If you read that, and read the SG-165 manual (which is readily available as a free d/l), you should come away with a decent understanding of the process.

As a rough rule of thumb, if the factory manual tells you to do something you can't easily do with the SG-165 w/o jumping thru hoops (for instance, they may specify to apply a test signal modulated at a different frequency than the 165 will produce or at a level expressed in dBf rather than the mV the 165 is marked with, and you don't know how to do the math), default to the procedure in the SG-165 manual. It'll get you through most tuners just fine that way and over time you'll understand its limitations and have a much more specific idea of what to shop for as an upgrade if you decide to get seriously into this alignment stuff.

Like many things there is no substitute for getting your hands dirty and actually doing an alignment. It'll probably be confusing initially but after a few passes you'll begin to see there's method to the magic.

John
 
Some of them might be not designed for that, i.e. no trimmers etc. but probably the bigger problem would be getting a service manual for a complete piece of junk. The Sencore manual will tell you the process but it can't identify the specific test points or adjustment points for you.

I'd start with something that's already working, and at least half-decent quality. Most vintage receivers from the '70s are a reasonable choice; buy a small one where the tuner is at least alive (you don't want to start out with trying to align a tuner that needs repair first!) and find the manual, go at it. You can search the manuals database here on AK and make a list of receivers that would be supported if you run across one at a decent price.

John
 
There are well build, adjustable units that are not high end. One of my first recap projects was a pioneer SX-535. I got it for next to nothing because it needed deoxit. I even made a small profit when I sold it. It has a nice solid chasis, and decent quality parts. There's tones of equipment in my house, I have a beater sansui 2000 that is missing the power switch, and has a busted bass pot. That might be good practice.

I have lots of service manuals on my computer, and I can usually find one for what it is I am working on. I've already done some stuff, like replacing outputs and recapping, and I've decided this is where I want to go next.

My plan now is to learn about how tuners work while I wait for a sencore and a good scope to come up.
 
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