Topping D50s - 3 months in - Socketed OP Amp Swapping choices?

[PianotunerNJ]

I’m in central Jersey, and I’d be in to sampling some different DACs. I have a few friends interested in buying some entry level Dacs soon and I’m personally curious about the D50. I have a D10 and an SMSL M500 which is great.

 

[Sam08861]

Cool! If we can get some folks to join in/expand the variety, etc. I'd be more than happy to host or meet up somewhere convenient for everyone.

 

[evilizlan]

After a few days, I'll be trying out the other 2 op amps.. While the muses8920 was to me (real or not ) an improvement over the LME49720, it still isn't matching the liveliness of my turntables or old 16 bit CD players. (recent 1541a score and toshiba TDA6709 DACs which have that voodoo that I do like)

I am finding DSDs over DOP are hit or miss, so not sure if it's the recording. Some seem a little flat still vs the equivalent CDs. Patricia Barber is phenomenal (too rich for my blood, Nardis, etc) while Rolling Stones Let it bleed isn't so much and my redbook cds are livelier. Roxy Music Avalon is again fantastic in DSD. Bob Dylan bob, Rolling Stones LiB and Norah Jones Come Away, Dire Straits Brothers in Arms... are 4 where I have both the CD and DSD files, so can A/B directly with the pre-amp knob and more or less the same timing, perhaps a few seconds off. For vinyl, I've been able to do the same with Nirvana Nevermind, MJ Thriller, and Bob Marley Legend. Wish I could get the "energy" and "realness" of the Vinyl or even some better CDs and the detail and resolution of the DSD and PCM files. One quick funny is that Rolling Stones Let it bleed sounds better send as 48K PCM via bluetooth into my GROM BT3 adapter into my car's audio system. (OK, some hyperbole here... clarity is no match, but the "vibe" is way better, lol)

Maybe it's some type of distortion I find pleasing and I will give the other OpAmps a try. I know I am probably getting ahead of myself.... but.... Any thoughts if the discrete Op amps, like Stratos or Burson V5i (only one that will fit this case, so what was recommended by Burson) in this buffer position might be worth a try? Or am I better served getting off the Topping Train before investing too much time into it?

I also have that troubling feeling and wondering if an RTR might be better suited for my individual tastes. I see there are some DSD capable RTR DACs but the ones I found are priced into the stratosphere. (Holo, Denafrips, Meridian, Mytek, etc). As a result, this will have to wait for a lottery win, higher paying job with a fantastic starting bonus or wait years until sell these on CL for cheap.

Anyone in NJ area up for a "DACaroo?" (sounds better than "DACoff," right?) Bunch of folks bring DACs, CDs and Records and we try them all out? Then rotate venues? Perhaps I'll post in the regional forum.

Sam, u managed to swap to V5i?

I have an xduoo xd05 and i swapped opamp to LME49720, after sometimes i upgraded to v5i and never revert or change. It is the best so far for me in the xd05.

I dont have a d50s to try, but am thinking to get one for my desktop.

 

[NJAudioGuy]

Hey fellow NJers - I have a Topping DX7s that I might be upgrading the op amps. So I will be following this thread closely.

 

[Sam08861]

Sam, u managed to swap to V5i?

I have an xduoo xd05 and i swapped opamp to LME49720, after sometimes i upgraded to v5i and never revert or change. It is the best so far for me in the xd05.

I dont have a d50s to try, but am thinking to get one for my desktop.

I've not listened to as much hi-res lately and have been somewhat satisfied with the bit better muse 8920, so never got around to it.
How would you describe the change to V5i? Looks like the price is $39 now

 

[Nixxuz]

Just a heads up; if you head over to DIYAudio.com there is a fellow who represents Burson, and who is willing to give out free samples of any of their discrete op amps, for the princely sum of one honest review on the site of your choice. They sent me 3 dual Vivid V6's for my DAC-05B, gratis. Not even shipping. They do it once a month I think. Members handle is SSAudio.

 

[Sam08861]

V5i D Incoming in the next 2 weeks.

 

[Sam08861]

These arrived, courtesy of Burson, who offered them gratis in return for an honest review. As such, I’ve included way too much information, but it might be helpful for someone to pick apart, lol. Thanks so much Nixxuz for the head's up on the trial and evilizlan for the recommendation on the Burson V5i Ds.

Because of the fact that these were sent from the vendor, I am being deliberate in my subjective and non-scientific testing, however, I will also not hold back on any gripes. I spent the first part of the day setting up the room, reconfirming and recalibrating the room EQ and warming up the system for an hour. Followed this by listening to the existing setup with the Muses Op Amp that's the favorite of the ones I tried previously. (I’ve tried OPA1612 sound plus, Muses 8920 and LM6172 and stock was LME49720NA).

I will focused my listening and assessment for what my primary gripes with the Topping D50s are, which are quite unscientifically:

"sound stage" and
"fun-ness" of the music​

If any other factors such as EQ, timbre or other potentially subjective characteristics do noticeably present themselves, I've mentioned them. As advised, since, in the Topping the swappable op amp is in the buffer section, I'm wasn’t expecting major sound changes but my desire is to improve the liveliness and soundstage.

The op amps:


Initial Impressions after spending several hours:

Soundstage:

Immediately noticed a difference in soundstage. With the Muses, which was better than any of the other op amps I tried, sound stage was a 60 degree, flat triangular plane, which was about the center 2/3rd of space between the speakers at ear height. After, this same song revealed it to be a bit wider than the speakers and also had height! I did not expect that at all. I would describe it as a more spherical pie slice, about 120 degrees wide and 30 degrees tall. It went from 2/3rd to the speakers to the back wall, and arced much wider. Color me impressed. On songs where I didn’t previously find a remarkable soundstage were totally opened up. For instance on Alan Parsons iRobot and the voice, this was very expansive, whereas before not so much. On many tracks where things were centered, I could now hear the vocalists walking on stage and shifting positions. Another thing was things that I previously felt were centered were often left or right of center with the new op amp.
​

Detail:

Didn’t really pay attention to this but, On Let it Bleed YCAGWYW, the male and female choir members were something that blended a bit previously, but were much clearer. On Patricia Barber’s too rich for my blood, the sustain on the cymbals being longer or perhaps more clear were something that jumped out.
​

“Funness:”

With regard to fun, I can’t really put my finger on it, but I can tell you this. When doing the pre-listening, I found myself waiting for the songs to be over so I could get to the next song or the passages where I wanted to take notes.

After installing, I had to force myself to change songs, as I was engaged and wanted to listen to the whole song. The first few bars had me hooked, and I found myself inching up the volume!

Did not expect this at all. Found myself tapping toes, nodding my head and dancing! Much more engaging, like my other sources. I now am enjoying the digital files to the same degree. Songs I wasn’t crazy about because I only had them in digital now were pulling me into the room. Walking away to type notes or grab the camera to take pictures, I found myself walking back in to enjoy the music.
​

Other observations:

Seems to be less fatiguing and perhaps the edge has been smoothed off of things that I previously found objectionable or perhaps glaring. Can’t quite put my finger on it.

Standouts with an increased mellowness are vocals, electric guitar first then piano, bass, high hats, cymbals.

Didn’t pay attention to volume, as I was listening at my usual subdued levels, until the fun started.

One weird thing happened after the switch. The Topping started off in 44Khz, even though the source was DSD 64. It was funny, because the volume and all other settings were remembered. A restart of the app on the iPad fixed this and didn't have the problem again. Not a big deal, but weird.
​

Overall:

Wow, didn’t expect that! For my, perhaps very clinical and accurate system, this was the combination of coloration and whatever else I needed that put the soundstage, musicality and maybe texture back into the music that I needed. Would highly recommend for those that have highly resolving/accurate systems that need a bit of soul!​

Other Info:

Background info: To recap, I have felt that the D50s seems to take the life out of some of the songs and a shrunken soundstage and while the Muses8920 was a small but noticeable to me step in the right direction, the DAC doesn’t quite engage me as well as CD, Vinyl, Tape, etc. While I don’t expect it to have the separation and saturation of 15ips master tapes, I didn’t expect it to sound so lifeless vs. Vinyl and CD. I suspect my system as set up is very clinically accurate/revealing because of the room-eq/bi-amping of horns and needs some color and texture from source systems, which is likely from my cartridge/stylus choices and the CD players’ multibit DACs. Maybe a bit of warming up of the sound too, which I can do with EQ.​

Songs listened to for comparison:

Played Patricia Barber, Rolling Stones – Let it Bleed – You can’t always get what you want and Alan Parsons Project – I Robot, David Bowie – Let’s Dance – Let’s Dance, China Girl, Girl from Ipanema 45rpm, Steely Dan – Gaucho, Stevie Wonder – Innerversions – He’s Mister Know it All, Pink Floyd – I wish you were here – various, Spandau Ballet - True, Roxy Music Avalon - various. All @ DSD 64 2.82mhz
Dire Straits – Making Movies Remastered – Romeo and Juliet, Skateaway, Tame Impala – Innerspeaker and The Slow Rush – various, Run the Jewels 4 – Various @ PCM 44.1Khz
Diana Krall, Girl in the Room Next Door - various – PCM 88.2khz
Made particular note on Let’s Dance of the sound stage, which is about 2/3rd of the distance spread between the speakers, centered and about 2/3rd of the way back for the block sounds that make it really to measure. Made particular note of the timbre/tone and life of Dire Straits Romeo and Juliet. Both of these songs were among the best of the bunch as far as enjoyability, pre testing.​

Setup info:

• Sitting at the point where the speaker centerlines cross
• Room is 20' wide x 15' deep x 19' tall with 4 large windows, a 65" tv directly behind the listening position and an open plan, so open on the left side and also partially on the 2nd floor. So horrible for a listening room, lol. I'll close the curtains but won't put a sheet over the TV, though I know it would help. (since I'll likely never do that when listening)
• Reconfirmed speaker positioning with a tape measure, recalibrated room EQ/leveling of crossover with RTA-M mic, and room EQ of subs with Audessy mic. It's a really bad room for audio, thus the room EQ + since the active crossover has this function, a bonus.
• Equipment details:
  • Power: All plugged into SurgeX power conditioner. Topping had an iPhone 5V USB A into the power connector plugged into the SurgeX, separate from the iPad USB/B to Lightning cable.
  • Source: Topping D50s via DSD capable lighting/USB B cable from iPad 7th Generation running paid Onkyo HF app and outputting DSD and PCM files of various resolutions. Spend some time picking 3-5 songs to listen to repeatedly for pre/post impressions. Picked hires songs that sound better to me in my Car and songs where I currently prefer the Vinyl or CD versions (from my multibit player) vs. the DSD or PCM files I have. (right now, nearly all cases, lol)
  • Topping filter was on mode 5 the whole time, since I didn't really pay attention, try different ones. Also of note, Topping saved settings, even after disconnecting, disassembly and re-assembly.
  • Signal path from Source ---> Technics SU-9070 Preamp, recently recapped/restored in the past couple of years; On Aux 1 source and out from the regular RCA outs (not the DC outs) ---> DriveRack PA2 Crossover, which all EQ turned off, except room EQ
    • DriveRack PA2 into 3 items:
      • Highs: Luxman R-115 (Elna Silmic ii recap) Amplifier section only (tone controls, volume, etc. bypassed by having altered internal wiring) --> Altec Model 14 Horns (internal crossover completely removed) directly from speaker outputs
      • Mids: Luxman R-117 (Elna Silmic ii recap) Amplifier section only (all bypassed by a direct connection to amp in and removal of pre-jumpers) --> Altec Model 14 woofers directly from speaker outputs. (crossover removed)
      • Lows: Velodyne Optimum 8" subs (active)
  • Speakers are towed in 5" and ~9' apart. 15” and 10” from rear wall (actually windows with blackout curtains)

Test run, Patricia Barber – Café Bleu – Too Rich for My Blood - Unmastered DSD 64 @ 2.82 MHz indicated on the Onkyo HF App (2.82mhz/2.82mhz) on iPad and the Topping’s little OLED screen. This was a song that I was actually happy with the sound of on the stock Topping D50s/LME49720A, so thought I’d listen for any differences. Noticed a bit of sibilance on the opening, so decided to let the DAC warm up about an hour and see if that’s better before proceeding.​

Setup photo:


Room EQ results:


Installation:

A 5 minute job and I had no clearance issues.
Tools needed: 2mm Hex wrench
Steps:

Remove 4 screws from bottom and unscrew Bluetooth antenna.
Remove bottom cover.
Remove 2 domed screws.
Disconnect ribbon cable by flipping up the black lever, then pulling out gently.
Disconnect Bluetooth antenna by pulling off gently.
The circuit board then lifts out and once flipped over gives access to the buffer op amp chip.
Remove the existing op amp chip, paying careful attention to the dot/orientation.
Place Burson op amp in place, with the correct orientation. (Dot closest to RCA jacks)
Re-assembly is the reverse of disassembly.​

This was such a quick job, I neglected to take a picture of the new op amp in place.​

Board before installing:


Test method: After spending hours on the setup and listening to the D50s/Muses combo, I turned off the DAC, unplugged, took apart and installed the Burson V5i Dual op amp. I played back the songs where I had to most memorable impressions and gave it another go.

Size comparison of the op amps: (L to R: Muses 8920, Stock LME49720NA, Burson V5i Dual, LM6172, OPA1612 soundplus)

 

[RunOutGroove]

I have some questions... First of all, is two of these op amps needed for the D50s mod? I see that you have a pair of them photographed but when I Googled the subject it wasn't at all clear to me if there are 1 or 2 of these things in the unit. Also, with my amp, which I'm sure is not the super revealing type that yours is, a vintage Marantz 2270 receiver, does a mod like this even make sense? Is my amp even revealing enough to show off the unique qualities of this op amp as opposed to the stock one?

 

[Sam08861]

There's only one op amp that is in a socket on this DAC, so only one dual op amp needed for the Topping D50s for what I did. (the original was the LME49720). The other op amp is going into one of my CD players that is analytic/clinical. May have to order another for making a pair.

I just swapped out the socketed item, circled in red below. Pulled out and pushed the new one in.



Not to confuse things, but one could also swap out the OPA1612s and some folks have, but that would require minute soldering skills and/or some adapters like this ... https://sparkoslabs.com/product/dip-to-soic-op-amp-adapter/ ... or some other solution.

When trying things out for the socketed item, I did the opposite and soldered a small chip onto a an adapter that goes from small to big to try out an opa1612 in the socket. (it's the one on the far right in the last picture at the very bottom in post #28), but I don't have the confidence that I wouldn't ruin something on the board so just stuck to replacing the one op amp in the socket. Plus, the little board came pre-soldered and I didn't have to remove anything, making it much simpler than trying to desolder and resolder the tiny chips in the Topping.

Can't say I know enough about the Marantz other than it's very well regarded and one of the most sought after receivers, but I'm sure you know that already.

Interestingly, the guys who make the little conversion socket I referenced above, also make upgrade kits for Marantz. https://sparkoslabs.com/ba312-ic-replacements-vintage-audio/. Unfortunately, I don't see the 2270 listed, but just though I'd mention it, in case it helps anyone else.

 

[Evonimos]

I've not listened to as much hi-res lately and have been somewhat satisfied with the bit better muse 8920, so never got around to it.
How would you describe the change to V5i? Looks like the price is $39 now

Muse are nice and smooth. I have the 8820 and the Muse01.
The 8820 in particular (BJT type) is awesome value for money.

If you want a more detailed and forceful presentation, then the LME49720HA (metal can version) is a good choice over those plastic DIP8 ones.
I wonder why the Muse family, does not give us any metal can options. I really think it would be a nice choice.

 

[Sam08861]

Since I'm still rolling op amps in this DAC, thought I'd put this review here, so it will all be in the same place. Apologies if this thread revival isn't the right forum etiquette.

I've received a pair of Burson V6 Classic Dual op amps and extensions from Burson, again, in exchange for a review.

Here's how they arrive in a little suitcase. One of the op amps is out of the case in the picture below, since it's installed in the Topping and they also have supplied a couple of gold pinned sockets. The sockets themselves have relatively fat legs and are gold plated inside and out.



Also supplied were a pair of extensions, since there's not enough room in the D50s chassis.



These didn't really work for me, so I ended up having to make a hole in the top of the D50s and plugging the V6 in directly. The silver lining is that this does make swapping the op amp infinitely easier, since I don't have to take the unit apart and also worry about the ribbon cable and bluetooth cables inside.

Below is the D50s with a hole in it (goodbye warranty, if there even was any left) and the V6 Burson Vivid mounted. The foil tape (blackened with a sharpie) is temporary to cover the rough edges of the hole made with drill bits and a dremel to the thick, milled aluminum chassis/cover plate. I'm thinking I'll cover the top with a piece of walnut veneer, just to give it a different look, or perhaps a sheet of steel with the cutout. Not too worried about it for the time being, since I'm a function over form guy.



And for size comparison, the V6, V5i and the other op amps that were rolled.



Onto the review:


Setup, same as before. (D50s into a Technics SU-9070, into a DriveRack PA2 crossover into Luxman amp sections and Velodyne subwoofer, with the 2 amp sections terminating into the horns and woofer (respectively) of an Altec Model 14 modified to be bi-amped.)

Speakers were re confirmed to be positioned in the sweet spots and the level and room eq done again, to ensure any acoustic environmental changes were accounted for.

After being pleased with the V5i as my favorite, I decided to spend a day listening to the D50s with the V5i to get a good sense and take notes of what I heard as far as soundstage, fun factor, details, etc. Also, I was putting off making a hole in the Topping, so used that as an excuse to spend the past Saturday listening critically to the V5i Dual.

A few songs in, I was really enjoying the setup and thought to myself that this combo is gong to be very hard to beat. It was just fun, engaging and I felt pretty happy about it.

On Sunday, I decided to spend a couple more hours in the morning before making the switch, so listened to a few more albums while performing the surgery on the D50s.

After making the switch and listening to the same albums from the morning and day before I was pretty shocked! (Albums were: Mark Knopfler - Down the Road Whenvever, ROXY Music Avalon, Patricia Barber - Cafe Blue, Nina Simone - I put a spell on you, Stan Getz - Girl from Ipanema, Steely Dan - Gaucho, Jeff Beck - Blow by Blow, Run the Jewels - RTJ4, Eddy Grant - Killer on the rampage)

I thought for sure it would be a very subtle difference, but wasn't expecting such a big difference. What's different? In order of most noticeable/striking

Sound Stage:

This was the biggest change. The V5i was an improvement, but the V6 Classic has taken this to a whole new level. As I described the V5i opened up the soundstage to wide arc and added a bit of height as well. The V6 Classic just inflated that soundstage to really fill the room! I'd say that from my ears there was an almost 180 degree span and the instruments now protrude well into the room and in some cases, sounded like they were beside me. They also seemed to breach the back wall by a few feet. So instead of the musicians/instruments being along an arc, they are now all over the room. Their placement was much easier to identify. Each instrument had it's own voice, position and 'layer' of sound. Previously, often, louder instruments or voices would drown out some or perhaps distract from some of the detail.

Resolution/Detail/Texture:

This almost as quickly noticeable as the sound stage. This wasn't an area I was looking for major improvements, but I got them and I think this had follow on effects to the texture and soundstage. I was picking up a lot more of the emphasis on details, that made a number of small things stand out. It wasn't just a treble boost, but more detail. On tracks where previously I could hear some of these details upon listening again, they didn't have the same emphasis differences that I could hear with the V6 Classic. This wasn't just boosted treble, but actually more sonic information to my ears. Pianos, Guitars and Voice were again more clear and drums seemed to start to get some of that realism, but not quite as forward as the mid-range instruments. The mid-range items were certainly pushed further into the room. I feel the new levels of detail surpass some of the vinyl versions and really are finally showing what the horn and speakers are capable of.

Smoothness:

I have to say the smoothness was quite good. If the LME49620 and OPA1612 were a bit smoother compared to the V5i in a more syrupy way, these were smoother in an analog way. Apologies for the crazy analogies, but not sure how else to describe it. It's as if the add'l smoothness was also making it sound more real, as opposed to laid back.

Fun Factor:

This might have have had a bit less warmth than the V5i, but just as fun. I think the added soundstage, detail and smoothness from above, seem to add, rather than detract from this as was perhaps the case with the chip based op amps.

Conclusion:

I am quite surprised at the differences this made. The D50s is a totally different DAC for me now and one I'm really happy with. I think my previously digital/sterile sound problem is completely fixed with this Op amp. I kept trying album after album to make sure the differences I was hearing were real and substantial. The 1st album I listened to was Mark Knopflers - Down the road whenever and everything I threw at it seemed to have these newfound capabilities. Several other albums have also now gone from 'nice to own and listen to' to 'go to' fun albums. ROXY music's Avalon is one example where it was nice but the added texture, soundstage and musical layering has turned it from fun to an absolute symphonic delight!

Highly recommend for those who are looking to tame the digital harshness from a revealing, dynamic system, while picking up tremendous soundstage and detail, not to mention smoothness.

Again, I was given the V6 op amps gratis in exchange for this review and so pleasantly surprised that I hear major improvements and truly nothing to complain about, so made writing an unbiased review very easy.

Going to have to try out these op amps in my reel to reel machine (which are nicely socketed and easily accessible, making an easy swap) when I have time and perhaps one of my CD players.

 

[RunOutGroove]

Since I'm still rolling op amps in this DAC, thought I'd put this review here, so it will all be in the same place. Apologies if this thread revival isn't the right forum etiquette.

I've received a pair of Burson V6 Classic Dual op amps and extensions from Burson, again, in exchange for a review.

Here's how they arrive in a little suitcase. One of the op amps is out of the case in the picture below, since it's installed in the Topping and they also have supplied a couple of gold pinned sockets. The sockets themselves have relatively fat legs and are gold plated inside and out.

View attachment 2129693

Also supplied were a pair of extensions, since there's not enough room in the D50s chassis.

View attachment 2129691

These didn't really work for me, so I ended up having to make a hole in the top of the D50s and plugging the V6 in directly. The silver lining is that this does make swapping the op amp infinitely easier, since I don't have to take the unit apart and also worry about the ribbon cable and bluetooth cables inside.

Below is the D50s with a hole in it (goodbye warranty, if there even was any left) and the V6 Burson Vivid mounted. The foil tape (blackened with a sharpie) is temporary to cover the rough edges of the hole made with drill bits and a dremel to the thick, milled aluminum chassis/cover plate. I'm thinking I'll cover the top with a piece of walnut veneer, just to give it a different look, or perhaps a sheet of steel with the cutout. Not too worried about it for the time being, since I'm a function over form guy.

View attachment 2129692

And for size comparison, the V6, V5i and the other op amps that were rolled.

View attachment 2129694

Onto the review:


Setup, same as before. (D50s into a Technics SU-9070, into a DriveRack PA2 crossover into Luxman amp sections and Velodyne subwoofer, with the 2 amp sections terminating into the horns and woofer (respectively) of an Altec Model 14 modified to be bi-amped.)

Speakers were re confirmed to be positioned in the sweet spots and the level and room eq done again, to ensure any acoustic environmental changes were accounted for.

After being pleased with the V5i as my favorite, I decided to spend a day listening to the D50s with the V5i to get a good sense and take notes of what I heard as far as soundstage, fun factor, details, etc. Also, I was putting off making a hole in the Topping, so used that as an excuse to spend the past Saturday listening critically to the V5i Dual.

A few songs in, I was really enjoying the setup and thought to myself that this combo is gong to be very hard to beat. It was just fun, engaging and I felt pretty happy about it.

On Sunday, I decided to spend a couple more hours in the morning before making the switch, so listened to a few more albums while performing the surgery on the D50s.

After making the switch and listening to the same albums from the morning and day before I was pretty shocked! (Albums were: Mark Knopfler - Down the Road Whenvever, ROXY Music Avalon, Patricia Barber - Cafe Blue, Nina Simone - I put a spell on you, Stan Getz - Girl from Ipanema, Steely Dan - Gaucho, Jeff Beck - Blow by Blow, Run the Jewels - RTJ4, Eddy Grant - Killer on the rampage)

I thought for sure it would be a very subtle difference, but wasn't expecting such a big difference. What's different? In order of most noticeable/striking

Sound Stage:

This was the biggest change. The V5i was an improvement, but the V6 Classic has taken this to a whole new level. As I described the V5i opened up the soundstage to wide arc and added a bit of height as well. The V6 Classic just inflated that soundstage to really fill the room! I'd say that from my ears there was an almost 180 degree span and the instruments now protrude well into the room and in some cases, sounded like they were beside me. They also seemed to breach the back wall by a few feet. So instead of the musicians/instruments being along an arc, they are now all over the room. Their placement was much easier to identify. Each instrument had it's own voice, position and 'layer' of sound. Previously, often, louder instruments or voices would drown out some or perhaps distract from some of the detail.

Resolution/Detail/Texture:

This almost as quickly noticeable as the sound stage. This wasn't an area I was looking for major improvements, but I got them and I think this had follow on effects to the texture and soundstage. I was picking up a lot more of the emphasis on details, that made a number of small things stand out. It wasn't just a treble boost, but more detail. On tracks where previously I could hear some of these details upon listening again, they didn't have the same emphasis differences that I could hear with the V6 Classic. This wasn't just boosted treble, but actually more sonic information to my ears. Pianos, Guitars and Voice were again more clear and drums seemed to start to get some of that realism, but not quite as forward as the mid-range instruments. The mid-range items were certainly pushed further into the room. I feel the new levels of detail surpass some of the vinyl versions and really are finally showing what the horn and speakers are capable of.

Smoothness:

I have to say the smoothness was quite good. If the LME49620 and OPA1612 were a bit smoother compared to the V5i in a more syrupy way, these were smoother in an analog way. Apologies for the crazy analogies, but not sure how else to describe it. It's as if the add'l smoothness was also making it sound more real, as opposed to laid back.

Fun Factor:

This might have have had a bit less warmth than the V5i, but just as fun. I think the added soundstage, detail and smoothness from above, seem to add, rather than detract from this as was perhaps the case with the chip based op amps.

Conclusion:

I am quite surprised at the differences this made. The D50s is a totally different DAC for me now and one I'm really happy with. I think my previously digital/sterile sound problem is completely fixed with this Op amp. I kept trying album after album to make sure the differences I was hearing were real and substantial. The 1st album I listened to was Mark Knopflers - Down the road whenever and everything I threw at it seemed to have these newfound capabilities. Several other albums have also now gone from 'nice to own and listen to' to 'go to' fun albums. ROXY music's Avalon is one example where it was nice but the added texture, soundstage and musical layering has turned it from fun to an absolute symphonic delight!

Highly recommend for those who are looking to tame the digital harshness from a revealing, dynamic system, while picking up tremendous soundstage and detail, not to mention smoothness.

Again, I was given the V6 op amps gratis in exchange for this review and so pleasantly surprised that I hear major improvements and truly nothing to complain about, so made writing an unbiased review very easy.

Going to have to try out these op amps in my reel to reel machine (which are nicely socketed and easily accessible, making an easy swap) when I have time and perhaps one of my CD players.

Interesting... Does that collection of parts come as a kit and then how much does it cost? If I don't want to make any permanent mods can I run the unit with the cover off, or is that likely to cause noise issues?

 

[Sam08861]

Interesting... Does that collection of parts come as a kit and then how much does it cost? If I don't want to make any permanent mods can I run the unit with the cover off, or is that likely to cause noise issues?

The op amps are purchased individually and prices range from $2 to ~$70 at the top end. In my case the expensive ones were provided by the manufacturer to test in exchange for a review. On top of that you’ll need a 2mm hex key to open the unit and also remove the 2 screws holding the PC board onto the case.

If you don’t want to modify the case, avoid the Burson V6, but the V5i dual fits. The remainder I tried out have the same form factor as the stock chip or just needed a conversion from a smaller IC to a larger one. You might be able to get a V6 in there using an extension and not making a hole in the case, but I gave up quickly in favor of making a hole, due to the required 'mangling' of the extension leads to fit into that space.

I don’t know about running with the cover off, but you would have to ensure the face plate screen and controls which are connected via a ribbon cable are attached.

 

[RunOutGroove]

The op amps are purchased individually and prices range from $2 to ~$70 at the top end. In my case the expensive ones were provided by the manufacturer to test in exchange for a review. On top of that you’ll need a 2mm hex key to open the unit and also remove the 2 screws holding the PC board onto the case.

If you don’t want to modify the case, avoid the Burson V6, but the V5i dual fits. The remainder I tried out have the same form factor as the stock chip or just needed a conversion from a smaller IC to a larger one. You might be able to get a V6 in there using an extension and not making a hole in the case, but I gave up quickly in favor of making a hole, due to the required 'mangling' of the extension leads to fit into that space.

I don’t know about running with the cover off, but you would have to ensure the face plate screen and controls which are connected via a ribbon cable are attached.

I think that I get it... the way that case is designed is that the front plate is attached to the rest of it, so that if you pull off the top, you're also pulling off that faceplate. No matter, I'll maybe look into that other more compact chip. I'm feeling like the sound that I'm getting for the thing is OK, but I have to wonder if I could do better. I'd love to hear a really top flight DAC plugged into my system and see if there was really much difference to my ears. I do like the idea of small tweaks to my current DAC that don't cost a boat load of money. Even if I'm not hearing much in the way of improvement at least I won't have spent too much to find out...

 

[Sam08861]

Aaron, let us know how make out as I'm curious as to have a second perspective on the changes.

As I'm listening to this more and more, and have a nice hole in the top, op amp switch has been reduced to just a few seconds to unplug and swap.

I've gone back to the original and the others and the more I've listened, I can't help but wonder if the improvements are a result of more resolution and much better left/right timing?

As I've stated previously, the perceived soundstage improvement is night and day for me and now wondering why.

 

[RunOutGroove]

Aaron, let us know how make out as I'm curious as to have a second perspective on the changes.

As I'm listening to this more and more, and have a nice hole in the top, op amp switch has been reduced to just a few seconds to unplug and swap.

I've gone back to the original and the others and the more I've listened, I can't help but wonder if the improvements are a result of more resolution and much better left/right timing?

As I've stated previously, the perceived soundstage improvement is night and day for me and now wondering why.

Yeah, knowing that I'd have to carve up this thing to do this mod and realizing that at some point, I may want to sell the thing makes me leary of doing these kind of mods... though I am really curious about how it sounds. Audio stuff has taken a bit of a back burner for me lately as my budget's been tight and I'm focusing on other stuff. Still, at some point I could see some kind of upgrade, though maybe not a mod, but a new DAC, I'll maybe wait for that new Schiit Modus thing to go on sale as it sounds like a lot of bang for the buck...

I'm actually kind of surprised at how close the stock D50s sounds compared to my Onkyo DVD player plugged straight into the amp. I have it hooked up so I can A/B the the two sources and though I can hear differences, the differences are really subtle. I have to wonder if this is just the nature of DACs, that the differences really are subtle or if my hearing just isn't refined enough to pick up on the differences... All that being said though, I do prefer the sound through the d50s, but only by a very small margin. It seems like the basic character of it is more of less the same as the Onkyo's built in DAC, but that it does have slightly more detail.

 

[onanysunday]

Has anyone been able to tell any differences in the way the V6 Classic sounds when it is plugged directly into an opamp socket compared to how it sounds when also passing through the silver extension leads?

 

[Rui7]

Since I'm still rolling op amps in this DAC, thought I'd put this review here, so it will all be in the same place. Apologies if this thread revival isn't the right forum etiquette.

I've received a pair of Burson V6 Classic Dual op amps and extensions from Burson, again, in exchange for a review.

Here's how they arrive in a little suitcase. One of the op amps is out of the case in the picture below, since it's installed in the Topping and they also have supplied a couple of gold pinned sockets. The sockets themselves have relatively fat legs and are gold plated inside and out.

View attachment 2129693

Also supplied were a pair of extensions, since there's not enough room in the D50s chassis.

View attachment 2129691

These didn't really work for me, so I ended up having to make a hole in the top of the D50s and plugging the V6 in directly. The silver lining is that this does make swapping the op amp infinitely easier, since I don't have to take the unit apart and also worry about the ribbon cable and bluetooth cables inside.

Below is the D50s with a hole in it (goodbye warranty, if there even was any left) and the V6 Burson Vivid mounted. The foil tape (blackened with a sharpie) is temporary to cover the rough edges of the hole made with drill bits and a dremel to the thick, milled aluminum chassis/cover plate. I'm thinking I'll cover the top with a piece of walnut veneer, just to give it a different look, or perhaps a sheet of steel with the cutout. Not too worried about it for the time being, since I'm a function over form guy.

View attachment 2129692

And for size comparison, the V6, V5i and the other op amps that were rolled.

View attachment 2129694

Onto the review:


Setup, same as before. (D50s into a Technics SU-9070, into a DriveRack PA2 crossover into Luxman amp sections and Velodyne subwoofer, with the 2 amp sections terminating into the horns and woofer (respectively) of an Altec Model 14 modified to be bi-amped.)

Speakers were re confirmed to be positioned in the sweet spots and the level and room eq done again, to ensure any acoustic environmental changes were accounted for.

After being pleased with the V5i as my favorite, I decided to spend a day listening to the D50s with the V5i to get a good sense and take notes of what I heard as far as soundstage, fun factor, details, etc. Also, I was putting off making a hole in the Topping, so used that as an excuse to spend the past Saturday listening critically to the V5i Dual.

A few songs in, I was really enjoying the setup and thought to myself that this combo is gong to be very hard to beat. It was just fun, engaging and I felt pretty happy about it.

On Sunday, I decided to spend a couple more hours in the morning before making the switch, so listened to a few more albums while performing the surgery on the D50s.

After making the switch and listening to the same albums from the morning and day before I was pretty shocked! (Albums were: Mark Knopfler - Down the Road Whenvever, ROXY Music Avalon, Patricia Barber - Cafe Blue, Nina Simone - I put a spell on you, Stan Getz - Girl from Ipanema, Steely Dan - Gaucho, Jeff Beck - Blow by Blow, Run the Jewels - RTJ4, Eddy Grant - Killer on the rampage)

I thought for sure it would be a very subtle difference, but wasn't expecting such a big difference. What's different? In order of most noticeable/striking

Sound Stage:

This was the biggest change. The V5i was an improvement, but the V6 Classic has taken this to a whole new level. As I described the V5i opened up the soundstage to wide arc and added a bit of height as well. The V6 Classic just inflated that soundstage to really fill the room! I'd say that from my ears there was an almost 180 degree span and the instruments now protrude well into the room and in some cases, sounded like they were beside me. They also seemed to breach the back wall by a few feet. So instead of the musicians/instruments being along an arc, they are now all over the room. Their placement was much easier to identify. Each instrument had it's own voice, position and 'layer' of sound. Previously, often, louder instruments or voices would drown out some or perhaps distract from some of the detail.

Resolution/Detail/Texture:

This almost as quickly noticeable as the sound stage. This wasn't an area I was looking for major improvements, but I got them and I think this had follow on effects to the texture and soundstage. I was picking up a lot more of the emphasis on details, that made a number of small things stand out. It wasn't just a treble boost, but more detail. On tracks where previously I could hear some of these details upon listening again, they didn't have the same emphasis differences that I could hear with the V6 Classic. This wasn't just boosted treble, but actually more sonic information to my ears. Pianos, Guitars and Voice were again more clear and drums seemed to start to get some of that realism, but not quite as forward as the mid-range instruments. The mid-range items were certainly pushed further into the room. I feel the new levels of detail surpass some of the vinyl versions and really are finally showing what the horn and speakers are capable of.

Smoothness:

I have to say the smoothness was quite good. If the LME49620 and OPA1612 were a bit smoother compared to the V5i in a more syrupy way, these were smoother in an analog way. Apologies for the crazy analogies, but not sure how else to describe it. It's as if the add'l smoothness was also making it sound more real, as opposed to laid back.

Fun Factor:

This might have have had a bit less warmth than the V5i, but just as fun. I think the added soundstage, detail and smoothness from above, seem to add, rather than detract from this as was perhaps the case with the chip based op amps.

Conclusion:

I am quite surprised at the differences this made. The D50s is a totally different DAC for me now and one I'm really happy with. I think my previously digital/sterile sound problem is completely fixed with this Op amp. I kept trying album after album to make sure the differences I was hearing were real and substantial. The 1st album I listened to was Mark Knopflers - Down the road whenever and everything I threw at it seemed to have these newfound capabilities. Several other albums have also now gone from 'nice to own and listen to' to 'go to' fun albums. ROXY music's Avalon is one example where it was nice but the added texture, soundstage and musical layering has turned it from fun to an absolute symphonic delight!

Highly recommend for those who are looking to tame the digital harshness from a revealing, dynamic system, while picking up tremendous soundstage and detail, not to mention smoothness.

Again, I was given the V6 op amps gratis in exchange for this review and so pleasantly surprised that I hear major improvements and truly nothing to complain about, so made writing an unbiased review very easy.

Going to have to try out these op amps in my reel to reel machine (which are nicely socketed and easily accessible, making an easy swap) when I have time and perhaps one of my CD players.

 

[Rui7]

Excellent choice and thanks for the review.
I followed it and it was a complete success on my very clinical system (by choice at this stage when I prefer fast sound and dark backgrounds, but I got to a point where it was too much...mainly in full digital sources). Stage and more intimacy. The burson v5i works very well on topping d50s with my Maclaren 5x100 to b&w 705s2 biamp. Congratulations Burson Audio for this excellent product!