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Train derailment on Ohio, toxic spill.

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I wouldn't be so glib about glycol monobutyl ether.
Quoting wikipedia: It is a known respiratory irritant and can be acutely toxic, but animal studies did not find it to be mutagenic, and no studies suggest it is a human carcinogen. Usually decomposes in the presence of air within a few days by reacting with oxygen radicals.

Compared to what Union Carbide did in Bhopal forty years ago, where half a million people were exposed and about 15 thousand died within days of the accident, this is peanuts. BTW, Dow Chemical bought Union Carbide twenty years ago. Who was jailed? How much did UCC or Dow pay? Well, wikipedia says, "In June 2010, seven Indian nationals who were UCIL employees in 1984, including the former UCIL chairman, were convicted in Bhopal of causing death by negligence and sentenced to two years imprisonment and a fine of about $2,000 each, the maximum punishment allowed by Indian law. All were released on bail shortly after the verdict. An eighth former employee was also convicted, but died before the judgment was passed."
 
How these corporate disasters often run. The accident happens. There is, depending on the visibility of evidence, an attempt is made to minimize the actual impact. People being told to return home after 24 hours might be seen as such.

Once the cat is out of the bag, promises are made. "We will make you whole again", or some such. There is an attempt to show how much the corporation responsible is doing. A PR damage control thing is set forth.

Then it goes to court, where it might get a hi viz major settlement levied against the corporation.

Then the appeals start. Drags on for years, or even decades. People harmed are often dead before any settlement money gets paid.

In the end, the corporation gets the initial settlement whittled down, and to be paid in inflated dollars, while people move on with their lives, most largely forgetting what happened.

In the environmental disaster in my neck of the woods, the Exxon Valdez grounding there were elements of these stages, and that is why I am familiar. A few examples.

Minimizing impact: Right after the grounding a reporter asked a Exxon representative how much oil spilled and his shotgun back of the napkin estimate was maybe 11 million gallons. A fraction of what was in the hold. That estimate stuck like it was cast in cement, to this day it is what is claimed as what actually spilled. In truth it was a lot more according to other experts.

Promises: Exxon high ups says in a speech delivered to the legislature I believe. "We will make you whole"

Court lawsuit: An Anchorage court awards victims and the state $287 million in damages and 5 billion in punitive.

Appeals court: 17 years after the wreck, Exxon gets the punitive damages cut in half. At that time I believe little was actually paid out.

Exxon appeals again, to the Supreme Court where the case is thrown out. Eventually the punitive damages were cut to around 1/10th the original settlement. Many towns people, Natives, fishermen, seafood industry, tourism ended up with very little once the pie was divided. Some people passed on before seeing any money etc. Exxon paid out the last of the money it owed in 2009, 20 years later.

So since that disaster was largely environmental and economic it is a bit different than this, so how will this train wreck go down? Very difficult to prove cancer 10 years later traced back, even if there is a sharp rise in cancer rates after a thing happens. That correlation doesn't prove causality thing is a pretty big steel wall in court and not much gets past it. Coincidence theorists win again?
 
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Quoting wikipedia: It is a known respiratory irritant and can be acutely toxic, but animal studies did not find it to be mutagenic, and no studies suggest it is a human carcinogen. Usually decomposes in the presence of air within a few days by reacting with oxygen radicals.

Compared to what Union Carbide did in Bhopal forty years ago, where half a million people were exposed and about 15 thousand died within days of the accident, this is peanuts. BTW, Dow Chemical bought Union Carbide twenty years ago. Who was jailed? How much did UCC or Dow pay? Well, wikipedia says, "In June 2010, seven Indian nationals who were UCIL employees in 1984, including the former UCIL chairman, were convicted in Bhopal of causing death by negligence and sentenced to two years imprisonment and a fine of about $2,000 each, the maximum punishment allowed by Indian law. All were released on bail shortly after the verdict. An eighth former employee was also convicted, but died before the judgment was passed."
Ask those animals how they feel about it. Having a coughing fit is no picnic, even if you don't mutate.
 
Quoting wikipedia: It is a known respiratory irritant and can be acutely toxic, but animal studies did not find it to be mutagenic, and no studies suggest it is a human carcinogen. Usually decomposes in the presence of air within a few days by reacting with oxygen radicals.

Compared to what Union Carbide did in Bhopal forty years ago, where half a million people were exposed and about 15 thousand died within days of the accident, this is peanuts. BTW, Dow Chemical bought Union Carbide twenty years ago. Who was jailed? How much did UCC or Dow pay? Well, wikipedia says, "In June 2010, seven Indian nationals who were UCIL employees in 1984, including the former UCIL chairman, were convicted in Bhopal of causing death by negligence and sentenced to two years imprisonment and a fine of about $2,000 each, the maximum punishment allowed by Indian law. All were released on bail shortly after the verdict. An eighth former employee was also convicted, but died before the judgment was passed."
I like Wikipedia as a quick source to learn about certain things. Historical facts and such, I am less convinced when it comes to what the harms are for chemicals and such. They are controlled I believe by certain corporate interests which want to preserve their image, and bottom lines. Make anything harmless, simply by moderating what Wiki says.
 
I like Wikipedia as a quick source to learn about certain things. Historical facts and such, I am less convinced when it comes to what the harms are for chemicals and such. They are controlled I believe by certain corporate interests which want to preserve their image, and bottom lines. Make anything harmless, simply by moderating what Wiki says.
Wikipedia is not a source of truth, it is an aggregator. There are links to the original documents. Have you tried editing Wikipedia? You may like it.
 
Wikipedia is not a source of truth, it is an aggregator. There are links to the original documents. Have you tried editing Wikipedia? You may like it.
I don't like or dislike it. It is just a source like any other that needs to be questioned from time to time, especially when very powerful people want a certain "truth" to be accepted in mainstream.
 
I don't like or dislike it. It is just a source like any other that needs to be questioned from time to time, especially when very powerful people want a certain "truth" to be accepted in mainstream.
It is not a source. It is an aggregator. You can see who, when and what have changed for every page.
 
When did it actually happen? Do you think it is serious enough to even warrant a thread or is it just the run of the mill disaster with some goo leaking out? I'm in the dark up here!
Feb 3rd. It has been on the news pretty much everyday here (Va).
I don't think a "look at what they are hiding" thread is necessary as it's had lots of coverage.

You guys that turn yourself into "hermits" from the outside world are often in the dark ;)
 
It's one thing to talk about each chemical individually, but have any of these geniuses made a small lake full of all these chemicals added together into one big sloppy mess to see what happens?
Then for poops and giggles flicked a lit match and burned it all up into the atmosphere. I highly doubt that particular study was ever done or the long term affects of doing this will have.
 
24 hour cable/ satellite news services have the ability to do extended focused segments, broadcast network news services generally not, with exceptions, being beholden to the cash cow scheduled programs and their advertisers.
This is an oldie, but sums up how and what 24/7 news channels report:

 
How these corporate disasters often run. The accident happens. There is, depending on the visibility of evidence, an attempt to minimize the actual impact. People being told to return home after 24 hours might be seen as such.

Once the cat is out of the bag, promises are made. "We will make you whole again", or some such. There is an attempt to show how much the corporation responsible is doing. A PR damage control thing is set forth.

Then it goes to court, where it might get a hi viz major settlement levied against the corporation.

Then the appeals start. Drags on for years, or even decades. People harmed are often dead before any settlement money gets paid.

In the end, the corporation gets the initial settlement whittled down, and to be paid in inflated dollars, while people move on with their lives, most largely forgetting what happened.

In the environmental disaster in my neck of the woods, the Exxon Valdez grounding there were elements of these stages, and that is why I am familiar. A few examples.

Minimizing impact: Right after the grounding a reporter asked a Exxon representative how much oil spilled and his shotgun back of the napkin estimate was maybe 11 million gallons. A fraction of what was in the hold. That estimate stuck like it was cast in cement, to this day it is what is claimed as what actually spilled. In truth it was a lot more according to other experts.

Promises: Exxon high ups says in a speech delivered to the legislature I believe. "We will make you whole"

Court lawsuit: An Anchorage court awards victims and the state $287 million in damages and 5 billion in punitive.

Appeals court: 17 years after the wreck, Exxon gets the punitive damages cut in half. At that time I believe little was actually paid out.

Exxon appeals again, to the Supreme Court where the case is thrown out. Eventually the punitive damages were cut to around 1/10th the original settlement. Many towns people, Natives, fishermen, seafood industry, tourism ended up with very little once the pie was divided. Some people passed on before seeing any money etc. Exxon paid out the last of the money it owed in 2009, 20 years later.

So since that disaster was largely environmental and economic it is a bit different than this, so how will this train wreck go down? Very difficult to prove cancer 10 years later traced back, even if there is a sharp rise in cancer rates after a thing happens. That correlation doesn't prove causality thing is a pretty big steel wall in court and not much gets past it. Coincidence theorists win again?
"Golden rule" (gold rules), a pillar of economic influence, which can make holding wealthy miscreants difficult. It's up to the governed to make them accountable by making informed representative choices independent of intent to influence the process.
Follow the money.
 
Only when they applicable which seems to be often in some threads on here :thumbsup:
I know, you can't seem to help yourself Is it just the way you are wired or what? I seem to have a target on my back with the two of you whenever I make a thread that I want to discuss. I suppose I could just block you, but I don't want to.
 
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