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Troubleshooting CD Players

yes under load CD turning
15,3v is required on schematic so measured 14,91V is 0,4V missing and not so good imho ?
GND screw are tight
here are some rail voltages

only ripple is a 8,5V saw form from transformer supply to U901 U931 with ok 5V outputs without ripple
IMG_20240327_182528.jpg
IMG_20240327_182346.jpg
IMG_20240327_182359.jpg
input and output of +-15V rail are ok
output of 15V rail is strong (22V input)
IMG_20240327_182950.jpgIMG_20240327_182724.jpgIMG_20240327_182905.jpg

reset ligne of the Sony CXP82440 is pin 38 and output of the IR receiver with a scope ?
what is your idea please ?
thanks again
 
yes under load CD turning
15,3v is required on schematic so measured 14,91V is 0,4V missing and not so good imho ?
GND screw are tight
here are some rail voltages

only ripple is a 8,5V saw form from transformer supply to U901 U931 with ok 5V outputs without ripple
View attachment 3161891
View attachment 3161892
View attachment 3161893
input and output of +-15V rail are ok
output of 15V rail is strong (22V input)
View attachment 3161896View attachment 3161894View attachment 3161895

reset ligne of the Sony CXP82440 is pin 38 and output of the IR receiver with a scope ?
what is your idea please ?
thanks again
The supply voltages look ok. You should look at them when it is in the failed condition.
 
thanks, very hard to catch such intermittent fault and even then measure voltages, still trying.
would be easier if i could reproduce problem on demand but unsuccessful at it for now...
 
The very same symptoms @dogwan described https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...oting-cd-players.440522/page-40#post-15874451
  • CD physically loads just fine. Drawer moves smoothly and transport moves into position both with, and without a disc.
  • Laser transport moves into home position
  • When initialized laser lens does pop up and down once trying to focus.
  • With disc inserted, initialization results in spindle motor rotatly 1/4 turn and it's pretty slow at that.
* NOTICED: sometimes when I press on the top frame with the specific force (hard to say how much pressure) the device reads disk info. that is why I think it is something more mechanical (laser head adjustment ?) than electric
Mine system is Nacamichi CD Player 4, NOT Nacamichi CD-4
View attachment 2818376
Hope nobody minds me resurrecting this old thread but I have made an interesting discovery about these Nakamichi CD-4s. After putting my original one on the project shelf, I bought another one that I found for a great price on eBay. Upon arrival the unit worked fine but soon developed the same problem as the other one, so now I was stuck with two bricks. I recently pulled out the new one just to give it a try and no surprise, it was still unresponsive. What I did discover however is that after leaving the unit in a powered on state for a couple of hours it will play a CD just fine. Using this method I played multiple CDs all day over the course of a week. I pulled out the original unit and plugged it in, nothing, but this one too after a couple hours 'warm up' time works perfectly.

So...what would a problem like this be attributed to?

Edit: the original player has had its laser replaced, which did not solve the problem as expected at the time.
 
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So...what would a problem like this be attributed to?
Maybe a cap or other component that is responds to heat. Not much heat in a CD player though. Try using a hair dryer to see if you can get it to play when cold.
I repaired an integrated amp last week that would not power up. It was a high ESR cap causing the problem. I used a hair dryer and warmed up sections of a PCB and it powered up. After the cap cooled off, it shut down again. I confirmed the cap was faulty with my ESR meter...completely open. Heat can temporarily help a high ESR cap work.
 
Maybe a cap or other component that is responds to heat. Not much heat in a CD player though. Try using a hair dryer to see if you can get it to play when cold.
I repaired an integrated amp last week that would not power up. It was a high ESR cap causing the problem. I used a hair dryer and warmed up sections of a PCB and it powered up. After the cap cooled off, it shut down again. I confirmed the cap was faulty with my ESR meter...completely open. Heat can temporarily help a high ESR cap work.
In circuit ESR tester, and monitoring power buses with O'scope for hash contamination indicating ineffective filtering.
 
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In circuit ESR tester, monitoring power buses with O'scope for hash contamination indicating ineffective filtering.
I recently learned the value of an oscilloscope. On a VCR that was doing some crazy stuff, the 5V power supply checked fine on my DMM. I was poking around with my scope and just for the heck of it put it on the power supply. Holy crap! The ripple was horrible! That power supply had many caps that were high ESR. It's now working great!
 
I recently learned the value of an oscilloscope. On a VCR that was doing some crazy stuff, the 5V power supply checked fine on my DMM. I was poking around with my scope and just for the heck of it put it on the power supply. Holy crap! The ripple was horrible! That power supply had many caps that were high ESR. It's now working great!
That was also my intro to the value of monitoring power supply buses and rails.
Pulse power supplies beat the crap out of elyticaps in the ps, and downstream when those go high esr.
 
That was also my intro to the value of monitoring power supply buses and rails.
Pulse power supplies beat the crap out of elyticaps in the ps, and downstream when those go high esr.
I only tinker but recently got an oscilloscope. I was working on a VCR that had servo problems. I was poking around with my scope and just happened to look at the 5V power rail. Holy crap, the ripple was horrible. There was a bad cap in the power supply. Oddly enough it measured 5V with my DMM. I've learned to look at power supplies first! Replacing that cap fixed the VCR.

Oops. Kinda double posted. I didn't think I hit the post button when my dinner was ready! LOL

IMG_20240319_154059309.jpg
IMG_20240319_154110752.jpg
 
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thanks, very hard to catch such intermittent fault and even then measure voltages, still trying.
would be easier if i could reproduce problem on demand but unsuccessful at it for now...
You could put the scope on the 5V line and trigger it at, say 4.8V.
I recently learned the value of an oscilloscope. On a VCR that was doing some crazy stuff, the 5V power supply checked fine on my DMM. I was poking around with my scope and just for the heck of it put it on the power supply. Holy crap! The ripple was horrible! That power supply had many caps that were high ESR. It's now working great!
I had the exact same thing happen, which is why I now advise folks to check the power supplies with a scope if they are having peculiar behavior that looks to be microprocessor related.
 
Hope nobody minds me resurrecting this old thread but I have made an interesting discovery about these Nakamichi CD-4s. After putting my original one on the project shelf, I bought another one that I found for a great price on eBay. Upon arrival the unit worked fine but soon developed the same problem as the other one, so now I was stuck with two bricks. I recently pulled out the new one just to give it a try and no surprise, it was still unresponsive. What I did discover however is that after leaving the unit in a powered on state for a couple of hours it will play a CD just fine. Using this method I played multiple CDs all day over the course of a week. I pulled out the original unit and plugged it in, nothing, but this one too after a couple hours 'warm up' time works perfectly.

So...what would a problem like this be attributed to?

Edit: the original player has had its laser replaced, which did not solve the problem as expected at the time.
Dang it. I gave up on mine and gave it away!
 
Hope nobody minds me resurrecting this old thread but I have made an interesting discovery about these Nakamichi CD-4s. After putting my original one on the project shelf, I bought another one that I found for a great price on eBay. Upon arrival the unit worked fine but soon developed the same problem as the other one, so now I was stuck with two bricks. I recently pulled out the new one just to give it a try and no surprise, it was still unresponsive. What I did discover however is that after leaving the unit in a powered on state for a couple of hours it will play a CD just fine. Using this method I played multiple CDs all day over the course of a week. I pulled out the original unit and plugged it in, nothing, but this one too after a couple hours 'warm up' time works perfectly.

So...what would a problem like this be attributed to?

Edit: the original player has had its laser replaced, which did not solve the problem as expected at the time.
Update...success!

Did some additional Googling and came across this thread...

Which lead me to this one...

Based on that I ordered a few 10uF, 16V capacitors. Plugged in my original unit to confirm that it was still misbehaving, I then swapped out the capacitor and now the unit is working as expected.

If I am reading the schematic correctly the purpose of this capacitor is the "Capacitor connecting pin for producing focus search waveform" which sounds like it would be related to the problem I was seeing. I plan on doing my 2nd unit this weekend, will test the old caps as well to see what they are reading.
 
Hey all, especially @dr*audio

I just picked up a Sony 507ESD single player deck for the princely sum of half a sawbuck!
This is the one with the dual TDA1541a DAC chips.

It was advertised as not working for parts or repair. I really only grabbed it to salvage the TDA chips because I've always wanted to do a DIY dac based on that chipset.

Well, now that I've got it on the bench I thought maybe I would ask what y'all thought about the viability of getting it working before I dismantle it. It occurs to me that it's probably a pretty good deck in working condition and maybe a shame to salvage it.

This is what the seller wrote me before I picked it up....

Symptoms: Loading a disk works - tray opens and closes, laser head returns to home position. If tray closes and there is no disk on it, laser recognizes this and does not spin up motor. But if there is a disk, spindle motor spins up and laser lens moves up and down to optimize focus and read disk. Usually (but not always) this is successful and the display will show the number of tracks, and total time. But when Start is pressed, disk spins continuously without track time being displayed and without any output. So it seams reading is marginal.

Diagnosis: All power supply voltages on main board are good. Motor control circuits are good. Laser driver circuit is functioning, but voltage to laser is lower and current is slightly higher than expected. I have not tried tweaking laser power level (on head) or doing any other alignments per the service manual. Those would be logical next steps.


Sure enough, when I got it home and tried it out it will load discs and read the TOC. If you press play it will just spin and not engage the 1st track. HOWEVER, I found if I fast forward to another track it would start playing but jump around on the track (like typical disc skipping, but about 10x worse).

The only thing I have done was to mark the pots for TRACK GAIN and FOCUS GAIN and tried slightly tweaking those (because I have read that you can't mess up too much by nudging those adjustments). This actually got it to play for about 30 seconds before it started skipping again. And it will read track 1 now, albeit with a lot of skipping.

SO, and it's a big SO, I know these use the KSS-151a laser which is really expensive if you can find a legit one. And like I said, I really just wanted the DAC chips. But if there's a kludge that might get another year or two of use out of the deck I am thinking it might be kind of nice to save it until there's no other choice.

Thoughts?
 
Hey all, especially @dr*audio

I just picked up a Sony 507ESD single player deck for the princely sum of half a sawbuck!
This is the one with the dual TDA1541a DAC chips.

It was advertised as not working for parts or repair. I really only grabbed it to salvage the TDA chips because I've always wanted to do a DIY dac based on that chipset.

Well, now that I've got it on the bench I thought maybe I would ask what y'all thought about the viability of getting it working before I dismantle it. It occurs to me that it's probably a pretty good deck in working condition and maybe a shame to salvage it.

This is what the seller wrote me before I picked it up....

Symptoms: Loading a disk works - tray opens and closes, laser head returns to home position. If tray closes and there is no disk on it, laser recognizes this and does not spin up motor. But if there is a disk, spindle motor spins up and laser lens moves up and down to optimize focus and read disk. Usually (but not always) this is successful and the display will show the number of tracks, and total time. But when Start is pressed, disk spins continuously without track time being displayed and without any output. So it seams reading is marginal.

Diagnosis: All power supply voltages on main board are good. Motor control circuits are good. Laser driver circuit is functioning, but voltage to laser is lower and current is slightly higher than expected. I have not tried tweaking laser power level (on head) or doing any other alignments per the service manual. Those would be logical next steps.


Sure enough, when I got it home and tried it out it will load discs and read the TOC. If you press play it will just spin and not engage the 1st track. HOWEVER, I found if I fast forward to another track it would start playing but jump around on the track (like typical disc skipping, but about 10x worse).

The only thing I have done was to mark the pots for TRACK GAIN and FOCUS GAIN and tried slightly tweaking those (because I have read that you can't mess up too much by nudging those adjustments). This actually got it to play for about 30 seconds before it started skipping again. And it will read track 1 now, albeit with a lot of skipping.

SO, and it's a big SO, I know these use the KSS-151a laser which is really expensive if you can find a legit one. And like I said, I really just wanted the DAC chips. But if there's a kludge that might get another year or two of use out of the deck I am thinking it might be kind of nice to save it until there's no other choice.

Thoughts?
Clean the posts that the laser slides on with alcohol. Allow to dry and then put 3 drops of light machine oil on the posts, on both sides of the laser. Oil the top bearing of the disc motor. If you're lucky, this will fix it. If not the laser is probably shot. You can look at the rf testpoint with a scope. If it's lower than 1V p-p, the laser is shot. If you don't have a scope you probably shouldn't be building a DAC.
 
If you don't have a scope you probably shouldn't be building a DAC.

Here, hold my beer....

In all seriousness, I was talking about one of those TDA1541 kit boards on eBay that people seem to like. My expectations aren't too high. Just thought it would be fun if I stumbled across a dead CD player with the 1541 chip.

Re: cleaning the guides. Forgot to mention that is one of the 1st things I looked at. This is a weird transport that I've never seen before where the laser is on magnetic guides with only one actual slide rail. I did check it and it seems well lubricated to the point that I could manually move the laser sled by hand easily (touching only the plastic). I will go ahead and still try and refresh the rail with some 10wt sewing machine oil I have on hand. I didn't think of the disc motor, will try that too.
 
I have a Krell KAV 250CD that will not read TOC. It uses the Sanyo laser and board. The posts are clean and lubed. The laser is clean and new. The laser moves forward attempts to focus, shows light. It just will not spin up. All voltages seem close enough. The electrolytic caps are all within spec with nice low ESR numbers. I am told this is the same laser and board combination used in several machines -- CEC, Parasound, YBA, and a few others. Anyone have suggestions for next steps?
 
I have a Krell KAV 250CD that will not read TOC. It uses the Sanyo laser and board. The posts are clean and lubed. The laser is clean and new. The laser moves forward attempts to focus, shows light. It just will not spin up. All voltages seem close enough. The electrolytic caps are all within spec with nice low ESR numbers. I am told this is the same laser and board combination used in several machines -- CEC, Parasound, YBA, and a few others. Anyone have suggestions for next steps?
It's doing focus search and doesn't spin. If you don't hear a sizzling sound, it's not driving the disc motor because focus search failed. The laser is shot.
 
It's doing focus search and doesn't spin. If you don't hear a sizzling sound, it's not driving the disc motor because focus search failed. The laser is shot.

I think I should clarify -- I said the unit will not spin up. This was a bad way to put it. The turntable does spin, it just never reads the TOC. It will spin for a short period as if it is trying, but then it stops trying and the platter spins freely to an eventual stop.
 
I have a Krell KAV 250CD that will not read TOC. It uses the Sanyo laser and board. The posts are clean and lubed. The laser is clean and new. The laser moves forward attempts to focus, shows light. It just will not spin up. All voltages seem close enough. The electrolytic caps are all within spec with nice low ESR numbers. I am told this is the same laser and board combination used in several machines -- CEC, Parasound, YBA, and a few others. Anyone have suggestions for next steps?
Brief update -- since it sounds to me like the CD player is trying to read TOC and lock in, I put a scope on the RF Eye pattern test point (10X), and as it is trying to read TOC, an eye pattern clearly appears. I will try to attach a photo. Elsewhere, someone suggested this means trouble with the servo circuit. Any suggestions on next steps to narrow things down?
 

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