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TT comparison, Pioneer PL-560 or SL 1800mk2

A

arjunsw

New Member
Hello, long time lurker first time poster!

I've been scouring my local craigslist for a long time, and found two turntables, and was wondering which would be a better option to pursue?

The first is a Pioneer PL-560 at $250, seems to be in good condition, owner says to have had it since '92, ortofon cart on it, audio technica feet, and dust cover has a little damage in the back.

The second is a SL-1800mk2 posted for $335, i offered ~260, haven't gotten a reply yet, and has a AT CN5625AL, appears to be in excellent working condition.

I';m drawn to the SL-1800mk2 just because of how well it is known and regarded, but I feel as if paying full price is a little pricey for me, nor do i really know if i will put upgrades into as time goes on. The PL-560 seems more special and has an interesting look to it, while also at a more digestible price. How is the pioneers reputation, and does that have upgrade-able parts? Does the upgrade path and name of the 1800mk2 justify the price increase? This is also my first real TT, am I just picking hairs at this point, or is there a real discernible difference between these two tables?

All help is appreciated as i'm a quite a loss right now, thanks!
 
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As much as I like the Technics (I own SL-1600mk2 from the same series, a SL-1300mk2 and others) I would go for the Pioneer PL-560. I think they are on the same level with each its own advantages. What I like about the Technics is the suspended subchassis and the height adjustment of the arm. But I would probably go for the Pioneer since it has the convenience of automatics, though some just like it fully manual I find the lack of auto-lift or auto-return a serious disadvantage. And the price of the Pioneer is much better.

On the sound quality: both will be capable of good sound if you combine them with the right cartridge and phono pre and connect them to a proper system. So which one sounds better will probably be subject to endless debate.

Also I think there is no need to "upgrade" (I would rather call it "modify") these turntables. I surely do understand and appreciate that there are people who are inclined to tinker with their turntables. But to be fair the sonic benefits will be debatable, and turntables like these already sound good enough to the ears of 99% of the people anyway. And if you are one of those who love to tinker anyway, forget the "upgrade path" since any turntable can be modified endlessly as long as you are inventive. :)
 
At add a little to dutchflea, the cartridge included with the Technics is a nice little bonus, but it is not a bonus worth considering in the price. It is a very basic cartridge and can be purchased for a very reasonable price.

Cartridge setup is not that hard, reasonably fun to learn, and you would want to double check it on the AT cartridge on the Technics.

WIth it being Craigslist, both sellers would seemingly be local. I would want to demo both/ either table. If the Pioneer has no cartridge that can be used, I would make sure that it powers up, looks like it is in good shape, and all functions work as they should.
 
One thing to look for on the PL-560 is the muting circuit. When the turntable does an automatic function it shuts off the output so you don't hear any of the associated noise. This can be a problem. You may want to listen to make sure there is no problems with that. It uses a set of points to interrupt the circuit and sometimes if the points are worn you will get hum or static when it operates. You can however remove or bypass the points and have a perfectly functional TT. PL-560 is a great turntable with lots of weight and great sound qualities.
 
Thunderbox said:
One thing to look for on the PL-560 is the muting circuit. When the turntable does an automatic function it shuts off the output so you don't hear any of the associated noise. This can be a problem.
Click to expand...
Is this a very common problem? Also do you know where I would be able to find a service manual for the pl 560?


welcomdmat said:
If the Pioneer has no cartridge that can be used, I would make sure that it powers up, looks like it is in good shape, and all functions work as they should.
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The pioneer actually comes with what appears to be the Ortofon OM5E cart, which what i was actually planning on getting, so that works well actually haha.


I think i will settle on the PL-560, as it is at a more reasonable price, and the difference between the pl-560 and 1800mk2 seems trivial from an audio standpoint, so it seems to be the better option, as well as automatic functions which i would prefer actually.
 
arjunsw said:
What makes you say that the Technics is better in the long run, maybe its difficulty to break?
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It's a fully manual turntable (less parts to wear out - automatic functions die first), contains components widely available in aftermarket (1200mk2 parts), well known Technics reliability, and arguably superior than the 1200mk2 for home use because the chassis.
 
Wearing out? That is not common with the quality decks from the 70's and 80's, it really isn't. It is just a general safeguard. The main issue with automatics is that they often need some cleaning (old grease), lubrication and adjustment. If you are not prepared to do that or let someone do it, yes perhaps a manual turntable is the best option. Though you miss out on the convenience of auto shutt-off...

Remember these turntables are around 40 years old, compare it to a car that hasn't had service for that long. I have 13 automatic turntables and they all work without any flaw once I cleaned and relubed them. Also remember that since they are 40 years old it is unlikely they will not survive another 20 years, or more.

Also take in to account that almost any automatic can be used manually anyway. And if you really want it to be manual in the end, permanently disabling the automatics isn't that hard. So in the rare case that the automatics would not be repairable you'd still have a manual turntable.
 
dutchflea said:
Wearing out? That is not common with the quality decks from the 70's and 80's, it really isn't. It is just a general safeguard. The main issue with automatics is that they often need some cleaning (old grease), lubrication and adjustment. If you are not prepared to do that or let someone do it, yes perhaps a manual turntable is the best option. Though you miss out on the convenience of auto shutt-off...
Click to expand...

okay, this makes a lot of sense, especially with the fact that the pl 560 has a seperate motor mechanism for the auto functions. Do you know where id be able to find the manual for it or which is a similar enough model that id be able to take a look at its inner workings? Im not really one to shy away from fixing things so id be willing to get my hands a little dirty too. Do you know where id find info about the right lube or grease for turntables?
 
Thunderbox said:
One thing to look for on the PL-560 is the muting circuit. When the turntable does an automatic function it shuts off the output so you don't hear any of the associated noise. This can be a problem. You may want to listen to make sure there is no problems with that. It uses a set of points to interrupt the circuit and sometimes if the points are worn you will get hum or static when it operates. You can however remove or bypass the points and have a perfectly functional TT. PL-560 is a great turntable with lots of weight and great sound qualities.
Click to expand...

Hello! New here. Do you have a schematic or can you easily guide me to where those points are? This sounds exactly like the problem I’m having. Everything works great, but there is some ghost noise in operation especially when starting and cutting.
 
OP might keep in mind that neither cartridge, Ortofon/AT, is anything to rave about and of minimal value in the big picture, at some point either table would deserve a much better cartridge. Another consideration when considering a manual or auto table is where the mfg invested in the design/parts. If looking for convenience I'd recommend a music bank 200 disc CD player with remote.
 
arjunsw said:
okay, this makes a lot of sense, especially with the fact that the pl 560 has a seperate motor mechanism for the auto functions. Do you know where id be able to find the manual for it or which is a similar enough model that id be able to take a look at its inner workings? Im not really one to shy away from fixing things so id be willing to get my hands a little dirty too. Do you know where id find info about the right lube or grease for turntables?
Click to expand...
Separate motor mechanism for the automatic features is actually a good thing in my opinion. I had an old Sony DD fully auto that ran everything off the main platter motor with gears and cams. Noisy and inefficient it seemed to be.

Mind you I'm not an expert.

The OM5 can easily be upgraded with a stylus change to OM10, 20 or 30 with audibly improved results, esp. up to the 20 level. I love Ortofon carts.
 
percolator said:
Hello! New here. Do you have a schematic or can you easily guide me to where those points are? This sounds exactly like the problem I’m having. Everything works great, but there is some ghost noise in operation especially when starting and cutting.
Click to expand...
If you open the bottom of the turntable and you follow the small wires that come from the tone arm you will come to the points that operate the muting circuit. There will be 2 sets of points in the assy, one for the right channel and one for the left channel I am fairly sure this model has the points. You may try to run some 1500 or 2000 grit sandpaper between the points which many times will clean them up and correct the problem. Be careful when spreading the points open that you don't use more force than required or you will bend them. if this doesn't work you can always bypass the mute circuit but when it is operating in auto mode you will hear some of the mechanical s before it starts to play.
 
cgutz said:
Separate motor mechanism for the automatic features is actually a good thing in my opinion. I had an old Sony DD fully auto that ran everything off the main platter motor with gears and cams. Noisy and inefficient it seemed to be.

Mind you I'm not an expert.

The OM5 can easily be upgraded with a stylus change to OM10, 20 or 30 with audibly improved results, esp. up to the 20 level. I love Ortofon carts.
Click to expand...

That separate motor for the automatic return is a PITA to repair if it fails, and if the arm ever gets jammed, a major repair problem. The Technics is easier to keep alive due to simplicity, and the motor on it is designed to be maintainable. Technics for the win.
 
dutchflea said:
But I would probably go for the Pioneer since it has the convenience of automatics, though some just like it fully manual I find the lack of auto-lift or auto-return a serious disadvantage.
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Now, I am on the other side of the fence. I find fully automatic a serious disadvantage--PITA to work on, more stuff to go wrong, and frequently noisy--changers are even worse IMO. Fully manual is simple and direct--stylus/cart, wires, and a motor that spins at the correct speed--that's it.

There is also something about spinning vinyl on a fully manual TT that forces you sit back, relax and focus on listening to the music. If you have to get up every 20 minutes or so to change sides, then you can't really be running around doing a dozen other things--you have to be a little more focused.
 
Thunderbox said:
If you open the bottom of the turntable and you follow the small wires that come from the tone arm you will come to the points that operate the muting circuit. There will be 2 sets of points in the assy, one for the right channel and one for the left channel I am fairly sure this model has the points. You may try to run some 1500 or 2000 grit sandpaper between the points which many times will clean them up and correct the problem. Be careful when spreading the points open that you don't use more force than required or you will bend them. if this doesn't work you can always bypass the mute circuit but when it is operating in auto mode you will hear some of the mechanical s before it starts to play.
Click to expand...
Thank you, cleaning the points has solved the noise, but I’m afraid I reassembled something wrong, as the platter will not spin. With the platter off, the spindle jerks back and forth, and with it on it does nothing. I figure this is probably pretty hard on the motor, so I figured I’d ask for help, rather than harm the table.
 
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